Wow, speaking of lies of Satan, I think he just spammed you.

 

David, I saw that the other day, but forgot to deal with it till you reminded me with your comment. Thanks.

 

My soul is my own -- it belongs to no-one, and that includes God.

 

Anonymous, oh yeah? Well, I own all your clothes, they belong to no one else - and that includes you!

My claim is empty because at no point in history has the ownership of those clothes passed from someone else to me, and I did not make your clothes from my own materials. Thus I neither purchased your clothes, nor did I make them myself - so that I have not authority upon which to stake my claim.

How then did you come to own your soul? Did you make it yourself? No. Did you buy it from the One who did? Did He officially give it to you as your own possession, or are you presuming that having possession of it makes it your own?

You are presuming of course, and just as I can presume to own all your wardrobe, you can presume to own your own soul.

But if you want to talk about what is actually true, and not what is true in our imaginations - that is another story altogether.

 

Daniel,
Some "interesting" commenting going on here - drew me over to see what was up. I like the way you answered Anon. I had never thought about it like that - it almost inspires me to go back and read the post. :~)

 

Yeah Rose, if you are subscribed to this post, you get to read all the unpleasant rants that come through by angry, people. I delete the profane ones.

 

i'm just really upset. i am a strong beliver of God an di think i would die for him if the test were to come. i'd be wetting myself, but who really woulnd't be!
anyway, when i was a little girl around 6-10 i used to think that i sould was always on the edge...if i did something, or didn't do it in time or whatever, satna would get my soul. Like a deal that i was automatically in, with no say in the matter.
so, to prevent satan from recieving my soul i used to have to say " i'm not betting, i'm not selling my soul, Lord Jesus save my soul"
it pissed me off so much. and i used ot hink that i was soulless. and i do now, becuase when i hear the priest say or whoever " through His wounds, we shall all be saved" i just kinda nkow that i'm not gonna be one of those people. even though i belive and try to be as good as i can for Him. i just know and its really, really upsetting. and i don't know what reason i have to belive that this is true, except that i am soulless

 

Alfonzay_123, I used to believe a lot of things about God long before I ever read the bible for myself. When I finally began to read the scriptures for myself, I was amazed to find that much of what I thought was in the bible was not really there - people had just said it was, and I believed them because I had never bothered to check, and believed no one would lie about something like that. Priests, and even people who called themselves Christians had misinformed me about what was in scripture.

The best thing you can do for yourself is to pick up an NASB or an ESV bible, and read it cover to cover. You will find that the devil is just another creature God created, and that he doesn't rule in hell, but he is given a very limited reign in this world, until Christ returns.

The devil doesn't buy souls, nor can he own them - that's just a fairy tale made up to scare children. When I was a child I spoke and acted like a child, but now that I am grown I have put away childish things.

Read this, it explains how God intends for us to become Christians. We don't become Christians by simply deciding that we want to join the Christian team, or start calling ourselves Christians, or start reading the bible, or going to church - and we certainly are not born Christians - we must be born again, and that link will tell you how that happens.

If you become a Christian, read the bible to learn about God, and join yourself to a bible believing church. Start listening to sermons by John Piper, R.C. Sproul, John MacAurthur, etc. Google them, and listen to what God has to say through them.

God bless.

 

Googling "can the devil own a soul" this evening, your post is the only item of value in the top 10.

Surely not your greatest acheivement, but still, it's nice to be the best at something, right? My thanks for sticking to sound doctrine-- well done.

 

Anon, it's rather sad that my post made the top ten, given that we should expect hundreds of similar posts by much more credible and talented people ought to be fill those places.

 

daniel i think im a devout christian n i love jesus n god but i have thought this silly thought for 3 weeks n ive been told the same thing that u cant sell whatisnt yours n its imposible but will u give me your true oppinion as well

 

So the whole concept of selling your soul to satan is basically a campfire-fairy tale-hocus-pocus-folklore...ish Myth?

I'm glad I found this post; the whole idea of it scares me. I had never really thought of the concept that way.

God created the whole Universe, physical and spiritual, and there by is its owner. So by thinking that you could sell something like the soul to a being like satan, is kind of taking glory away from God isn't it?

That’s a whole ‘other topic right there haha.

Thanks for the great post dude!

 

Anonymous, we become Christians when we recognize that our own sins have condemned us already, so that if we die right now, we don't have to guess about where we are going to go. God doesn't decide whether we go to hell or not by weighing our good deeds against our sin. If we sin even once, we earn hell, and no amount of good deeds can undo that. It is like virginity - once you lose it, no amount of abstinance can gain it back. So anyone who has sinned even the smallest sin is entirely condemned already - they are guilty before God, condemned to hell the moment they die. That is why we need to be saved from sin, because there is no amount of good deeds we can do that can undo even one sin.

We don't become a Christian by simply calling ourselves Christians and saying I believe that the real God is the God of the Christian bible. The demons know who God is, and that doesn't make them Christians even if they start calling themselves Christians. So one can think himself or herself to be a Christian because one thinks all it takes to be a Christian is to associate yourself with Christianity (exclusively or not); but that doesn't make anyone a Christian. Loving Jesus, or God can't make anyone a Christian either.

I mention all this because you said, "I think im a devout christian".

A person doesn't become a Christian by doing religious things like reading the bible, praying to God, going to church, and even loving God and Jesus. Nor does a person become a Christian by struggling against their sins and trying to do good. That is all just religion, and while it may come about that someone who is saved suddenly has a profound drive to do all these things, doing them without being a Christian first, doesn't make you a Christian.

To become a Christian you must understand not only that you sin has condemned you, but that it is right and just that you are condemned. You must agree with God that you truly deserve hell. You must know in your heart that if you died that it would be utterly wrong for God to do anything other than send you to hell. You must see that sin is as damnable and bad as God says it is. That is, you need to believe that you are as condemned as you are, and not simply say, that you have sinned, but so what? Who hasn't? You can't come to God with an attitude that says, hey - I am a sinner, but really, I don't deserve hell - because that is like saying, I know better than you God, how bad sin is, and frankly, you should be able to over look my sin.

The reason it is so important that you "get it" - that you understand how wretched sin is, is because you will not be saved if you don't really believe your sin has condemned you. It is one thing to hold an academic opinion - and to say without any heart in the matter that your sin, according to the book, condemns you, but that this condemnation isn't really fair - and quite another to say, I see with my heart that I am undone by my sin, and without hope in the world. No one will come to Christ who thinks there is some other hope, or some other way.

(cont)

 

Anon (cont)

Having said that, many will come to Christ with their lips, but not with their hearts, and so they will be deceived - thinking themselves to be Christians, but never having really known Christ - and this is what I try to mitigate against in informing you (and whoever chances to read this) about the necessity of understanding your condemnation - if deep down you think your sin is so trivial that it can be forgiven without your death and condemnation, then you will not (cannot!) turn to Christ in earnest. You may pay lipservice to your need to be saved, but you won't really believe that you do need to be saved - you will just be doing what you think you have to do in order to "properly join" the Christian faith.

Yet if you do see yourself as justly condemned, and you do understand that there is nothing you can do to undo your just condemnation, and in the wake of that knowledge you rightly tremble at your coming fate - then you will realize that you need Someone else to reconcile you to God - that you cannot reconcile yourself to God by doing this or that, by being good, or even by calling yourself a Christian, or praying or reading the bible - that nothing you can do will save you, that you need someone else to do it for you - then you will begin to understand the wisdom in God's plan.

For God sent Jesus into the world, to live as a man, but without sin, and to offer all those who are willing to be reconciled back to God a way to be reconciled back to God. The way the bible describes is that Jesus would unite Himself to anyone who desired to be reconciled to God - a spiritual union, so that the sinner who wants to be reconciled to God is joined to Christ in a spiritual bond - this joining happens the moment a person cries out in genuine faith to God to be truly reconciled to Him through His Son Jesus Christ.

Now, having been united with Christ, God is able to bring us through condemnation. You see, God is just and cannot overlook our sin - not even our smallest sin - each must be punished in full. So, because we are united together with Christ by faith, when Christ was slain on Calvary, we (and our sin) were slain too. Not our bodies, but that part of us that would have survived and went to hell - that part is united with Christ on Calvary, so that God HAD to pour out His wrath on Jesus on Calvary - nor for His sin, for He had none -but for ours. Like co-joined twins that share one heart, one was innocent, the other condemned to death - to carry out the death sentence both had to die. So we died in Christ when Christ died.

But Christ, being innocent, could not remain in the grave, for God is just, and because God is just, the innocent twin had to be raised back to life - and because he is joined to the guilty, in order to raise the innocent, the guilty also must be raiesed. So it is with all who are in Christ by faith. We die in Christ on account of our sin, but when God raised Christ, we were raised too. Jesus was like Noah's ark. Noah's ark carried the animals and Noah's family through God's temporal wrath. Jesus is the true ark that was pictured by Noah's Ark - He carries us through God's
eternal wrath.

(cont)

 

Anon (cont)

The moment we understand that we are condemned sinners and in that knowledge cry out to be reconciled to God - to be put back into a right relationship with Him - the moment we cry out and say, "Yes, we are rightly condemned for having rebelled against You. We have hated you, but now we see that we deserve hell for our rebellion and hatred, and seeing our fate, we desire instead to be reconciled to you again, and because you sent your son to save us from this sin that has condemned us, we believe that event though we deserve death and hell, yet in your mercy you have offered life and reconciliation to all who believe that you are merciful enough to grant it even to sinners such as we are, for no other reason than because you are who you are - loving, kind, and merciful - so we believe that you will save us, and call upon you do to what you have said you would." When that is the genuine cry of our heart, then we become Christians, the Holy Spirit immediately begins to indwell us - a new baptism if you will - a down payment on the eternal life to come. For in that moment we die spiritually on Calvary, and are given a new life - a shared life - Christ's life, and that life comes into us in the Person of the Holy Spirit - the bible describes it as being baptized by Christ in the Holy Spirit. It's a one timer, and the moment that happens, all things become new - new affections suddenly are there, which were never there before, because they are Christ's affections, newly made yours through you union with Him. You have the life of Christ in you, it is your new life. You become a new creature, then and only then, are you a Christian.

If you are a Christian you have been purchased by Christ with His own blood (Acts 20:28) - hell owned your soul, but Christ used His own life to bring you through death by taking your death for you, so that by his righteousness God would have to raise you from the dead. This was the price He paid to redeem you from sin (1 Corinthians 7:23).

Thus, if you are not a Christian, and have sinned the devil would gain nothing by buying your soul, since both you and he will end up in hell. And if you are a Christian, you have already passed through death in Christ, and cannot die again, for (spiritual) death has no claim on you.

 

13th - yup, it's all bunk. Satan wouldn't need to buy anyone's soul since everyone who doesn't come to Christ is going to hell anyway. Satan isn't God's rival, He is God's creation, and he will be cast into hell along with all sinners and every other angel that rebelled against God.

Satan cannot purchase anyone's let alone the soul of a believer.

But Satan can lie.

He is a liar and a murderer, and was so from the start (scripture says). Satan is going to hell, and in his hatred and rebellion, he wants to destroy as much of God's creation as he can on the way down. If a person is convinced that they can sell their soul to him, that suits his purposes well, since they will think that doing so makes them "unsavable". If they can be deceived this way, they will not turn to Christ and be saved, and so even though he has no power to buy their souls, if by pretending he has purchased their soul Satan can convince sinners that they cannot be saved - then by lies and deceit he succeeds in keeping them from turning to the only hope they will ever have in this world.

So yeah, all bunk, but not harmless.

 

so even if you did do it it wouldnt make a difference basicaly

 

Anon - since selling one's soul is not a valid thing - it doesn't stop one from repenting of sin, and turning to Christ in faith and being saved. Likewise, since every sinner is condemned already, it isn't like you suddenly become "more" condemned if the devil deceives you into thinking he has purchased your soul - you are just as condemned as you were before, the only difference is, if one is ignorant of scripture, is that you might imagine it is suddenly "impossible" for you to be saved by Christ - and that is just hogwash.

The difference is only in how deceived one is. The person who hasn't heard the gospel is deceived in that he or she thinks he or she may "go to heaven" when he or she dies, so long as he or she is good enough - that's bunk, all who have sinned are condemned already - we are assured a place in hell the moment we die. The only way to escape our condemnation is to turn to God through faith in Christ, and ask to be reconciled - the moment we turn away from sin, and turn to God in faith - Christ baptizes into Himself through the Holy Spirit (i.e. we are born from above), that justifies us before God so that we are no longer, nor can we ever again be considered, condemned. If we believe that this "option" is not available to us because we have been tricked into thinking that the devil owns our souls through some sort of faustian pact - then we may not embrace the truth, but embrace the lie of the devil, and in so doing, remain condemned.

So it isn't quite like there is no difference, rather it is that we are just as condemned prior to thinking we have sold our soul, as we are condemned after we become convinced that we have sold our soul - but now, in order to receive the message of salvation, we must first be re-educated, as it were, out of the deception that we are irredeemable.

 

im terrified ive sold my soul help please

 

Bruce, in the post you will read that your soul isn't yours to sell, nor is the devil able to buy it. All that can really happen is you get deceived into thinking that you do own your soul, and you can sell it, and that the devil can buy it. But the truth is God owns your soul, satan is just another created being (like your or I), and he can no more buy your soul, than you can by his.

If you have sinned, you need to be concerned about the judgment for your sin. You don't need to sell your soul to go to hell, you just need to sin once - and all the good you could possibly do in the world won't erase that, which means if you die between now and becoming reconciled to God "good and proper" you won't need to guess at where you are going to end up.

Here is what you do. Read the entire post, then read all the comments. In both the post, and the comments the way of salvation is made clear. If you still have concerns after reading it all in full, then let me know, and I will be glad to address anything I might have missed.

 

i just have weird thoughts like if i dont drink a soda im going to sell my soul or if i leave my house im selling my soul what should i do please help

 

Bruce, I am not shrink, but that sounds a little like an obsessive compulsive thing. I used to really struggle with the idea that if I blasphemed the Holy Spirit I would lose my salvation. Every single time I thought about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, my mind would want to "taste the words" as it were, and I was quite convinced that even if I let myself think the words in some blasphemous phrase it would be certain doom. Yet every single time I read through the passages that speak of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, I would almost freak out trying to make sure that I didn't think about it, and thereby damn myself.

It may sound silly or even dumb to some people, but for me this was the most bizarre and intense struggle in my soul, and I felt that my eternal soul was at risk and at stake each and every time.

So I personally can appreciate this sort of obsessive compulsion. Here is how I dealt with it, I told myself the truth.

You see, for me at least, one of the things I was doing was telling myself that I had no control over my thoughts, and I honestly believed that. I really did think that I was sort of a victim, and that kind of thinking kept me from actually dealing with the problem because I kept waiting for God (or someone else at least) to make the problem go away. As long as I was convinced that I was a victim, I was trapped by the lie, because the one who imagines himself to be locked in his house, will stay there even if the door has never been locked.

So I began, when the compulsions came, to remind myself that I was the one making this happen - that I was choosing to react to the thought in a compulsive manner, and that the only reason I let it continue is because I was telling myself I had no choice. I stopped playing that game, and began instead, when such a compulsion came upon me, to talk to God about it in that moment. To tell God the truth about it, that I really did have a choice in the matter, and that I was consistently choosing to behave as though I had no control. You see, scripture tells us that God gave us a sound mind - the mind of Christ to be plain - and that self control is a fruit of the Spirit that He put in us. Knowing these things were true, I was left to either call God a liar, or turn to Him in my weakness, confessing it for what it was, and determining in my soul that I would stop presenting myself to these compulsions as though I were powerless to do anything, and instead simply stop the ridiculous compulsive behavior.

It worked for me.

(cont)

 

well a preist and a pastor told me this i just ignore the things when i think them now and im terrified how do you know that its not possible

 

Bruce, as a rule, my wife and I do not lot strangers babysit our children. We simply can't trust people we don't know with those things that are precious to us.

In the same way, you can't trust scripture if you are not familiar with it, or worse, if you don't believe it is all true.

The only solution to your dilemma is to [1] believe the bible is true, and not just bits and pieces that you think are believable, but the whole kit and kaboodle; and [2] become familiar with what scripture says.

I say this because I have told you plainly how there is no provision in scripture for the selling of souls, and this didn't seem to inform you as it would have had you been a little more famliar with the texts.

The only solution I can see for you is that you read the bible and believe it. If you do that, you won't long suffer under these delusions.

 

i know im a pest but what do you think i should do just ignore the thoughts knowing there untrue

 

i really truly belive in christ i am a bad person i drink i go to strip clubs to brothels and i think im saved and i do theese terrible things i want to become serious i truly know if i died right now i would be damned for all etrinety i dont truly no how to become saved i really need help

 

Bruce, you don't sound like a pest to me, though you seem more than a little confused.

I wouldn't say that you should simply "ignore" your impulses, but you do need to change how you respond to them if you are going to have any peace in the matter. You need to become convinced of what is true, and when you are, these lies won't have the same "freaking out" power they presently have.

Now, about attending brothels, going and seeing strippers, and drinking to the point of drunkeness, these are not things that Christ would do, so it isn't Christ in you who is calling you to do these things, it sin that desires these things, and sin reigns in the flesh, so that if you obey your flesh, you are obeying sin, and in doing so demonstrating a lack of self control that is out of step with the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, if indeed God's Spirit is in you.

I have explained how to be saved through links in these comments (see above), and I have gone over salvation in brief in these comments as well. We are not saved by believing that there is a God, and that He is the God of the bible - that is just common sense - even the demons believe that much. We are not saved just because we believe that Jesus died on the cross to save sinners, for (as I have said) even the demons believe that, and it doesn't save them any more than believing what is true saves you.

In Matthew 1:21, the apostle writes, "You shall call His name Jesus for He will save His people from their sin". What does Jesus save you from? The bible tells us that Jesus saves us from sin. "Television religion" tells people that Jesus saves us from hell. There is a bit of a difference there.

The apostle Paul taught that those who are saved (from sin) do not continue in sin, because Christ died to free them from sin's dominion, the power that sin once had over those who are being saved from sin, has been broken by Christ's work on the cross.

Here is a bit of wisdom for you, no one gets saved from sin who doesn't deep down inside want to be saved from sin.

How do I get saved? You get saved by [1] desiring to be saved from sin (God puts that in you when He begins a work in you), [2] seeing yourself as in need of saving (You recognize that you can't simply be free from sin in your own strength), [3] recognizing that the bible teaches that only Christ can save you from sin, and [4] coming to Christ in faith to have Him save you from sin.

There is no special prayer to pray, so liturgy to follow - the man who was crucified beside Christ didn't follow a program - he simply repented of his sin, and put his faith in Christ. If you do the same, you too will be saved.

On a final note, I have explained how to be saved several times now - if you still don't understand it, take instruction from this scripture: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14) - it means that spiritual things are not understood by virtue of our cleverness, education, or even our earnestness - they are discerned spiritually. If you cannot understand salvation, the only person that can open your heart to understand it is God. Ask him to make it clear to you, and He will.

God receives sinners Bruce. Your sin doesn't disqualify you, it actually qualifies you, for salvation.

 

how come you here about people selling there souls and becoming famous for it

 

forget that last comment i just read ezekiel 18:4 im saved praise jesus im saves

 

Bruce, once we understand that our very existence is "owned" by God, the rest gets pretty easy, and more so for those who are in Christ, for we have been purchased by the blood of the Lamb.

 

well maybe you can help daniel i have ocd and my counciler said to ignore the thoughts of selling my soul and last night i had a usual ocd out break thinking i would sell my soul if the giants won and immediatly renounced it well in the long in the short of it the giants won last night and now im terrified could you shed some light

bruce

 

I have similar thoughts to this, and all I can say is that, no matter how convincing the thoughts are. No matter how many times they tell you "you sold your soul" satan does not have the power to take your soul. God created the universe and all that is in it, so God "owns" everything in existence, from every single atom that makes up you, and your computer screen, to the farthest galaxy from earth. God "owns" your soul, my soul, and my neighbor’s soul. If God didn't have dominion over everything in creation, he wouldn't have the right to judge it as he sees fit. The Bible tells us that satan is active in the world today, yes that is true. But he is on a short leash, if you look at the book of Job, satan had to ask God for permission to attack Job, but even then God was still always in complete control.

With that being said I now the feeling you have when those thoughts enter your mind and through coincidences what was said comes to pass. But it's all just a ploy to rob your peace. satan is a liar, and he always has been, so all he can do to you is lie and hope that you believe him.

Read these they will help.
http://www.gotquestions.org/sell-soul-devil.html
http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read2/r00745.html

 

Also, God is love. God will forgive you of anything. as long as you turn to Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. Like Daniel said God is OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT, and OMNIPRESENT He is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, He always has been and always will be. so to think that if you possibly could sell your soul (which you can't) that you are "spiritually screwed" because of it, is wrong. If God is powerful enough to flood the whole earth, to move the sun backwards, to utterly destroy sodom and gomorrah, and turns Lot's wife into a pillar of salt. don't you think that if it were possible to sell your soul, He would be able to undo it?

 

what about the other websites saying im damned and thwre is no turning back i cant be saved how do i know what to do

 

i beg jesus to take me back

 

Bruce, there comes a point where you are going to have to choose what to believe, and no one but you can make that choice.

If you are going to believe that there is a God, and He is the God described in the bible - then you can't (at the same time) believe websites that tell you things that are contrary to the bible.

I am going to be frank with you, you don't sound like you really believe the bible is true. No person can convince you that scripture is true, that's God's work, and it won't happen if you don't read it - faith comes by hearing God's word, not by hearing "about" God's word (read Romans 10:17).

To be sure, I could care less what -any- website says, including my own, and so should you. Who gives a rat's bottom what you read on the world wide "make it up as you go" web?? The bible however, has remained God's unchanged witness to mankind for millenia. No one will be reading any of these websites in 2000 years - but the bible remains the most read book on earth year after year after year.

I am not going to tell you I am right and websites that tell you that you are damned forever if you sell your soul are wrong, because that is something God's word has to do, and the sooner you learn that, the sooner you will have an anchor in your life through which the peace of God can sustain you.

Ask yourself this, who is more likely to be right about these things - some guy on the internet, or the bible? If you say the bible, then for goodness sakes - read it from cover to cover and see if you can find any soul selling nonsense in it. If you don't (and you won't) then start asking yourself who made all this junk up in the first place.

If you do a study on it, you will learn that it began as a story, that was adopted by several hands long ago - it isn't from scripture, it is a bed time story meant to frighten those who don't know any better. I have sought to help you "know better" but honestly, the rest is up to you.

 

Wow Iv Jus Seen this Post I think its aload of crap ur spirit belongs to god ur soul belongs 2 u that is the only thing that does belong 2 u so if u want 2 sell it 2 the devil u can because it iz urs

 

Anonymous,
I appreciate your opinion, and your zeal to express it here.

I had considered deleting your comment I don't care to what I write referred to as a load of crap; but I decided I would answer you instead.

I believe the bible is true, and that is why I believe in God, in Satan, in my soul, and in hell; but because I believe that the bible is true, I must also believe (if I am going to be intellectually consistent) that [1] Satan cannot purchase my soul, [2] that every person is condemned to hell the very first moment they sin, and that [3] no amount of good works can change number two. I believe that [4] God, as Creator owns not only my soul, but the Devil's soul as well, and that [5] the devil is just another one of God's creatures. I believe that [6] the devil cannot purchase souls because God isn't selling them, and [7] Satan has no currency with which to buy them. I believe that [8] we do not own our own souls, for [9] it is God who sustains our life moment by moment through an exertion of His will, and that [10] if God ever stopped willfully keeping us in existence, both we, the world, and even the devil, demons, and all the angels would instantly cease to exist.

I believe these things because scripture teaches them. I am not speaking my opinion then, about how -I- think it is, or ought to be, but rather turning to scripture (rather than to folklore, my own imagination, television, or even campfire stories) as the source of the truth in this matter. Your argument is therefore not with me, or anything I wrote, but with the bible - which is rather odd, since you are willing to accept what it says about the existence of God, Satan, Hell, and your soul, but reject what it says about these things.

I suggest therefore, you read the bible for yourself and see that I am not presenting my own take on these things, but am in fact accurately portraying what scripture has to say on the matter.

 

" I don't care to what I write referred to as..."

s/b

I don't care to have what I write referred to as...

 

Daniel this is a great post, I like it it has helped me alot lately since, I suffer from obsesive compulsive thoughts, I get thoughts like the user bruce claims and they have been killing me and striking fear into my heart everyday, making it seem like my soul is at risk everytime.

My question is even if someone does the disgusting ritual of selling their soul, the enemy can't buy it? Even if the enemy himself was physically present?

Now one more thing, are you 100% sure on this? I want it to be, but you know people have their own translations of the Bible that im having a hard time believing anyone these days.

 

Seg,

I am 100% sure. But my certainty is only good for me. The only way a person can become themselves is to read the bible and see for themselves.

The NASB bible is the mist literal translation you can get, the ESV bible is probably the next best translation after that. I have read both more than once. In fact I have read the NKJV, the KJV, the NET, the TNV, ans the NIV all cover to cover and most several time. The problem isn't with the various translations, ithe problem is with there being so much folklore and old wives tales being passed off as authoritative. If the bible is authoritative, and I believe it is, then we have to set fairy tales aside. The whole notion of soul selling makes for fine entertainment, but it isn't grounded in anything God has said, nor is it consistent with anything God said.

Even if the enemy were physically present, he is still just another creature God created - just like you are, and you could no more sell your soul to him, than he could sell his soul to you.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for your explenation

Here is what brings doubt to me

1. Just because God never mentioned doesnt mean its not sin or real. For example. As far as I know Pornography was not mentioned in the Bible BUT it is sin because you are commiting adultery, selling your soul is not mentioned but it is under the category of occultism. I dont't know maybe I think I too hard on these things.

2. If its not real, how do celebrities like John Lennon claim to have sold their souls and they have humongous succes?

Once again Im not trying to challange your beliefs. I want to believe this, and I want to make sure everything is "covered" you know , so no more possible doubt comes to mind. I have read the Bible, and not just the Sunday school stories, I've read good ammounts of books written by Paul, know alot from the four Gospels and stuff, but Im bad at translating

 

Seg,

There are drawings and engravings from that period that were as pornographic as anything we see today (penetration, ejaculation, etc. etc.) It isn't like it wasn't there - it is just that it wasn't as sophisticated.

Notwithstanding, the bible isn't silent on this sort of thing, which is alternately referred to as lasciviousness, lewdness, immorality, sensuality, impurity, fornication, sexual promiscuity, lusts, enticing by fleshly desires, and sensual conduct. See here for some bible verses.

Which is to say that while our translations do not use the exact word, "pornography" the root problem of pornography (immorality, sensuality, lusts, and enticing earthly desires, etc.) is certainly condemned, so that no one use or peruse pornography without transgressing these clearly articulated, but underlying, principles.

John Lennon never claimed to have sold his soul - where did you read that?

The idea that some, if not many, professional musicians sell their souls to gain fame and success is about as vacant and paranoid as a thing can be. It is ridiculous to claim, after his death, the Lennon "must have" sold his soul to the devil - ridiculous because, as I spent a lot of time pointing out - there is no such arrangement that can be made, given that we do not own our own souls, and no one has any currency to buy them, and God Himself isn't selling them - but even if we throw the facts out the window and pretend that it could happen - trying to suggest post humorously that such and such a musician sold his or her soul is just plain slander. It makes from nice pulp filler in the wacko-conspiracy theory section of the book store, but is otherwise as bunk as bunk can be.

If we appeal to scripture and scripture says that God not only created all that there is, but breathed life into us (our souls), and that when we die our souls return to him (for judgment) - then we either believe it or we say we do not believe it. If we say we believe it, then we cannot believe that a person can sell or buy souls, and neither can any other created being - including Satan, who is likewise just another created being.

Remember that according to scripture, God upholds all of creation by His thinking, that is, if God ceased to think uphold Satan's existence, then Satan would simply stop existing.

The whole idea that Satan is God's "opposite" - the "ying" to God's "yang" is just bunk - the influence of eastern philosophy on Christian old wive's tales.

 

Seg,

all of that is just to say that if the devil can convince some poor sap that they can be eternally damned by entering into a pact with him - then the devil, whom scripture describes as a liar, a murderer, and a deceiver, will have succeeded in lying to the poor sucker - and kept him or her from learning the truth about themselves and about God, and about Jesus Christ who came to earth to forgive repentant sinners.

The truth is that if a person enters into a pact with Satan or some spirit who is masquerading as Satan, that pact has no power to condemn that person in and of itself whatsoever. The only thing that can (and might happen) is the person becomes convinced they are damned, and simply gives up and goes to hell rather than turn to God in repentance and faith so that they might be saved from their sin.

 

Thanks

On Lennon: I saw it on a video called the "Beatles Exposeed"

So how can I control those thoughts? My mind tends to think the things I dont want to think about.

 

SEG, the advice I give is not psychological, but spiritual, as one who has studied scripture, and is giving an answer that harmonizes with the word of God.

If I think I am the king of England - regardless of how convinced I might be of it, that doesn't make me the king of England. That's an important thing to note. What if I were convinced that the king of England would be assassinated? Then thinking I am the king of England might be a frightening thing, right? But if I knew I wasn't the king of England, the fear factor would pretty much disappear.

In the same way, I wouldn't worry about imagining you have sold your soul, or will sell your soul to the devil - since that ain't gonna (and can't ever) happen - even if you wanted it to. If you accept all kinds of old wive's tales, television "experts" and even internet "experts" as authorities - you will never be satisfied that you are in no danger, because no matter how many "experts" you surround yourself with - there will always be convincing arguments that contradict one another.

Yet the bible hasn't changed a bit since they started passing around the letters that became scripture in the first century. Until you regard the bible as authoritative - and more - until you know what is actually in it, and what really isn't - that is, until you learn how much of what you are afraid of is actually bunk - made up by men - then you're going to be open to attacks of fear and worry.

The truth is you don't know the scriptures as you ought to, and if you do, you don't believe them to be true as you should. Having no foundation, therefore, but the shifting opinions of contrary human experts, you are without hope; until or unless you turn to some objective truth - scripture.

So while I can't help with OCD, I can help you with the way it freaks you out on this point - learn the truth, and the lie will have no power over you.

 

Thanks for the advice. See when ever I hope for something or attempt it (anything, wether its hoping something is on tv, or when i throw something in the trash can, I hope it makes it in) the thought comes to mind of me offering my soul in exchage for what I want. I think to myself "there is no such thing, I rebuke that" Is that the thing to do?. Sorry for beign a pest by the way, Im just trying to get things cleared up and return to my normal state of happines.

Now I see you think I don't belive the Scriptures, I would if what I read came 100% from God, meaning if I read from a Bible that was personally given to me by God.

The thing is im confused, people have their own translations, doctrines, Pastors "expose" one another and call each other heretics.

 

Daniel, first off, I must say thank you for this post. I have obsessive-compulsive thoughts that I can't rid myself of. For example, a thought like "I'm giving my soul or selling my soul to the Devil if I buy this new game and play it." I still buy the game, and play it, but I constantly have doubt as to whether my soul now belongs to Satan or not. Pretty much everything that makes me happy in life... girlfriends, movies, television, books, games, Internet, etc. has been followed by a bad thought in my head saying "If I date her, or do this, or play that, then my soul is going to Hell. I try to stop these thoughts by blocking them out by saying to myself "I'm never selling my soul or giving my soul to Satan." However, that makes it worse. Every little thing in my life that I try to do, a terrible thought about selling or giving my soul to Satan comes into my head, and I always have doubt. It is very depressing, stressful, and fills me with anxiety. I would be a much happier person if I were normal, and didn't have these terrible thoughts literally all the time. If you don't mind, I would like to hear your input, and everything you have to say, and what I should do about these terrible thoughts.

Thank you Daniel. God Bless you.

 

Anonymous

I know how you feel, I go throught that too, and when I told people about it, they thought I was crazy and needed to get busy on something, well guess what? I do find something to do, and the thoughts still invade my mind in every way! For example, when ever I hope for something, when I attempt something, when I exepect a message from someone or something I even get thoughts of beting my soul!, I know how you feel cuz I was happy until this stuff came into my life and I dont like these thoughts coming into my head, I've been checking this site like crazy. you and I aren't the only people, read the comments from the user "bruce" and the ones he said to me. The thing is NO ONE really understands us, execept God and ourselves. Daniel wil most likely tell you to read the Bible and find in it where it talk about selling your soul and give you spiritual advice (which it doesn't). I don't blame him, he must be quite tired of having people like you and I bugging him. Yes its hard to believe this because we have grown up with ridiculous tales and stuff, but I DO want to believe this.

 

Anon, Seg,

I do not think either of you are crazy.

in Proverbs 28:1 it says:

The wicked flee when no one is pursuing, but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Consider the man who learns that he has a special super-hero power: He can kill anyone with just a thought.

This same man loves his wife and children so much that any time he thinks of them, he immediately remembers that he mustn't kill them with a thought, so that each time he thinks of his family, the very desire to keep them from harm, actually places them in far more harm than they could be in had he not loved them so dearly. For though he loves them, he is afraid that he might think the unthinkable thought and bring their life to an end.

I say this because now, the desire to preserve their lives causes him to check every thought against the possibility of a fatal slip - so that he is thinking about them all the time, even when it makes no sense to be thinking about them - and every time he things about them, he must struggle not to think the unthinkable thought.

Yet even this has its own problem, because we are all curious by nature. We can't help but wonder what it would be like if we actually thought the unthinkable? We would be so caught up in trying to preserve the lives of our loved ones, that we probably would daydream a little, you know, imagine how awful it would be if we slipped - which leads itself into imagining what we would have said - which is like daring us to think the unthinkable thought...

The whole thing would be nightmarish if we actually could kill people with a stray thought.

But how ridiculous would it be to fixate over that if we actually couldn't kill people with our thoughts?

There is nothing in scripture that suggests that souls can be bought and sold. There is nothing in scripture says says that one creature can purchase the soul of another creature.

The bible says that on judgment day God is going to judge His creation - and Satan, as just another created being, is going to be judged by God who created him, and will be found guilty, and cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. Satan can't even control what is going to happen to his own "soul" let alone anyone else's.

In other words, the thing you fear isn't real, and so even if you do your best to sell your soul, you will have done nothing except look foolish.

The truth is that you are condemned already if you have sinned even once. You can't undo that sin, and you cannot make up for it - God will not forgive you for it no matter how you beg him to, and when you die you will go to judgment, be found guilty, and spend eternity in hell - whether you sell your soul to Satan or not. That's the message of scripture - that everyone is condemned by sin, and none escape that condemnation by their good works.
(cont)

 

(cont)
That is why the gospel is so important - it says that God knew there was no way for men to be reconciled to Him, in and of themselves, so He Himself provided the means for our reconciliation by sending His Son, who Himself was with God before the world was ever made - who shared the personhood of God, but came to be born of a virgin here on earth, to live life as a man so that we could be reconciled to God through Jesus.

How are we reconciled to God through Jesus? Well, it was God's plan from the beginning to save mankind in such a way as to allow God to be righteous in sparing the guilty. You see, sin was and is the problem. A just God does not overlook sin - He punishes it. He wouldn't be just if He sent one man to hell for rebelling against Him, but allowed another man to live who had rebelled against Him. In fact, if God had spared even one sinner the wages of their sin (eternal suffering in hell), then God would cease to be just, and would be an unjust, fickle judge.

So God had to find a way to punish the wicked and spare those who turned to Him seeking to be reconciled to Him by no other means than by trusting that God really would reconcile them to Himself if instead of trying to appease Him by their good works, they instead just trusted Him to save them for no better reason than they had sincerely asked Him to.

God chose this way - to send Christ to the earth to live a sinless life - and then to have His Son Jesus spiritually "joined" to every sinner past, present, and future who turned to God, or will turn to God for salvation by nothing more than trusting that God will keep His word and save them. Through this union, believing sinners were crucified with Christ, so that when Christ died, they died, and when Christ was buried, they were buried.

In this way God punished, in full, those sinners who turned to HIm to be saved- He put them into Christ and poured His wrath out on Christ on the cross. In fact the moment these sinners were irrevocably united to Christ - God had no choice in the matter, He was bound by His own righteousness to pour His wrath out on them, and (through the union with Christ) on Christ as well. That is why Christ died - because He had been united to those guilty sinners who had turned to God in faith to be delivered from His wrath.

But just as their guilt condemned the innocent Christ to death, for he became a partaker in their life, and so He partook in their death - yet when He was dead, His own life, having never sinned, was innocent, and God could not be just if He let Christ rot in the grave. So in order to remain Just, God had to raise Jesus from the dead - but in order to raise Jesus, He had to raise all who were in Jesus as well.

You see we are saved in the same way Noah was saved. God put Noah and his family into the ark so that they could pass through His wrath, and come out the other side. This was done to leave us an historical picture of what God would eventually do in Christ - for God put us into Jesus, as it were, by combining our lives with His, so that we who believe in God's promise to save us, could pass from death into life in the "Ark" that is Christ.

Anyone who turns away from every other false way, and turns to God to be reconciled to Him by faith - this one is joined to Christ - dies with Christ, and is raised with Christ - this one has eternal life already, and can never lose it. Anyone who neglects so great a salvation, so great a promise here on earth, will come to judgment day and find only wrath eternal -for they were offered reconciliation through Christ, but preferred to pleasure of sin in this lifetime.

(cont)

 

(cont)
So you see, obsessing over something as corny as selling your soul to Satan seems ridiculous and trival to me, for if you are reconciled to God in Christ, nothing can change that - and if you are neglecting the only salvation offered to man on earth - then it hardly matters whether you "sell you soul" or not - since you're going to hell the very moment your heart stops beating anyway.

My hope, of course, is that you have indeed turned to God in faith - trusting in Him alone to save you from Himself - but if you haven't turned to God, then my hope is that you would do that, for it seems to me that if you haven't turned to God in and through Christ for reconciliation - then you have real things you ought to be obsessing over, and selling your soul to Satan isn't even on the list.

I hope that makes sense and doesn't sound mean or anything. It is what scripture teaches, and I wouldn't be a very good person if I believed that to be true, but failed to mention it to you both.

 

To Seg:

Thank you for mentioning to me what you go through, as it helps me knowing that someone else knows how i feel.

To Daniel:

Thank you so very much. Those last couple of posts relieved me, and actually helped me. Thank you for not calling us crazy, and thank you for explaining it all out to us. I really do appreciate it pal.

 

Thank you Daniel for this teaching, I has been quite a relief lately, sadly it is the only thing on the web about this.

I've been thinking lately on my own reasons and beliefs on why this isn't possible, like you said your own certainity is good for you.

1. Mankind is cursed to hell, because of SIN, not selling your soul

2. There is absolutely no Biblical foundation. The earliest version I've heard of this came from the American Colonization/Revolution era which is WAAAAY past Biblical times.

3.This idea totaly contradicts the Bible and makes Salvation impossible for some people (the ones who "sold their souls") when its available to EVERYONE since we are all sinners

 

Ezekiel 18:4 shows God speaking and saying this

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (this is the king James version, I believe)

Also think about this, if God didn't own your soul, and everything about you, and about the universe and everything in it.

How could He, the Just God that he is, judge everyone at the final day?

 

What makes me doubt is the ammount of power the enemy has, I understand he is not God's opposite and that he is a creation of God but he does have power, a single human can not bring destruction to nations, a single human can not poses someone, a human can not disguise him self as a UFO or ghost to deceive people. Thats what makes me doubt, his power.

 

Anon - amen.

Seg - The devil is certainly powerful, to think less is to be foolish, and dangerously so. He can't buy anyone's soul, and He cannot stand against the power of God, or any of God's servants - but that is not to say that He is powerless. But the only people who need fear the devil are those who belong to him by default, for all who are in Christ have nothing to fear.

 

again Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

this verse claims that God owns all souls. I doubt satan has the power to take ownership away from God.

 

Anon - when I say "the only people who need fear the devil are those who belong to him by default" - I don't mean to imply that the devil literally owns them - but rather that they are ruled by the devil - children of Satan - if you will, for that is how scripture describes them -they do the work of their father -the devil. These words are used figuratively in scripture, and so I was also using figurative language.

Notwithstanding, I should remember what sort of discussion I am in, and how easy it would be to misunderstand my own figures of speech - I should have been more literal and less poetic.

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Daniel, Im so sorry for beign stubborn, I really am, what makes me very unbeliving is paranormal stories that people I KNOW have told me , not stuff in movies or folk stories, the theme of soul selling is included, my mom told me that the man who told her about what he saw had a horrible expression on his face which made it hard to think he was lying, he said he attended a man's funeral who was believed to have sold his soul, he said the lights went out and horrible sounds were heard, next thing you know the body was gone.

Another reason is my questioning nature, in whatever situation in life, wheter its spiritual or secular, I don't jus sit there and take an answer, I take the answer find out about it in depth and look at both sides. This makes it hard for me to believe anything, and I know you're beign sincere in your work and thats great, I'd like to hear more advice from you

Thanks.

 

lol I'm sorry for making it seem like I was arguing with you Daniel. I was actually responding to seg. I hadn't seen your post while I was writing mine.

 

Seg - I don't doubt that you've heard all kinds of stories from reputable sources. The question is whether or not scripture is reputable. If you refuse to believe that the bible is accurate in describing the fact that God owns the soul - then why would you believe that there even is a Satan?

That is, it is intellectually dishonest and more than a little irrational to say, I believe there really is a biblical Satan, but I don't believe what the bible says about him. You can't have it both ways if you want to be intellectually consistent. If you can't believe one part of the bible, you really can't believe any part of the bible.

I hope you see that. I hope you see that what people do, who dice up the bible into "this I believe" and "this I reject" - is that ultimately -they- are deciding what they are going to believe and what they are going to reject.

Do you see that. If I presume that I am able to choose what is true, and what is false, then the bible is pointless, since I do not regard it as more authoritative than my own opinion about what ought to be true.

The question is one of authority and accuracy. Is God's word authoritative and accurate? If it isn't, then we shouldn't even believe that there is a Satan, since the bible can't be trusted. If it is, then we shouldn't believe anything that runs contrary to what scripture says.

I don't suggest that these people you know who are retelling some paranormal experiences they either witnessed or heard about from a reliable source - I don't suggest they are lying, though I suspect the truth is far less dramatic than what you have heard, yet even if all things happened exactly as you have heard them to have happened - that in no way validates the idea that a soul can be sold to Satan. All that says is that some freaky stuff went down, and someone somewhere jumped to the conclusion that it was "because" so and so was known to have (or rumored to have) sold their soul to the devil.

Does that make sense?

 

Anon - I wasn't sure if that was originally directed at me, but re-reading my own post, I thought my choice of wording was ambiguous enough that it could apply, and I wanted to correct any ambiguity.

Thanks.

 

Daniel are there any quotes from Jesus saying that God owns your soul?

 

Anon. Yes there is, but most people would miss it because their understanding of scripture is superficial.

In 1 Peter the apostle Peter tells us that it was the Spirit of Christ speaking through the old testament prophets.

That means that if we wanted to record the words of Christ in red letters, we could/should make the whole Old Testament (from Genesis to Malachi) "red letter" since the Apostle Peter tells us that it was the Spirit of Christ speaking through the OT prophets.

Paul agrees with Peter, all scripture, writes Paul, is God breathed. That is, if we accept the premise that Christ is God, then the whole bible, old and new testaments, ought to be red letter.

I mention the "red letter" thing because there are some people whose understanding of scripture is weak (at best) and these tend to have a very low view of scripture - regarding the" words of Christ" as more significant and therefore more binding/true, than the rest of the text. But scripture itself testifies that this is not the case.

So in the sense that God breathed all the scriptures, and again, in the more specific sense that it was the Spirit of Christ Himself speaking through the OT prophets, we can say without blushing that Christ did indeed make the claims we recorded earlier in this discussion concerning who owns our souls.

But if you are asking if Jesus Christ, during the incarnation restated this idea, and that this restatement was recorded, then, no. We neither have nor need such a restatement.

I hope that helps.

 

So all of what ezekial wrote was really the spirit of Christ? How did Peter know this? Did Jesus tell him or was it the Spirit of Christ? Or was it something else all together?

 

Anon, Everything Ezekiel wrote was inspired by the Spirit of Christ, so that we can say that what Ezekiel wrote Christ intended him to write.

Peter knew this because Christ informed him it was so.

if we accept that Peter was an apostle (meaning one who is sent), that is, if we accept the premise that Peter was sent by Christ, such that what Peter writes is not his own message, but what Christ intended him to write, then we must accept that however Peter came to record this - ultimately it was Christ's intention for him to do so.

At least if we want to have any intellectual honesty in what we purport to be true.

Personally I think Christ told him, and probably during that intense time of teaching following the resurrection but prior to the ascension.

If that helps. I am off to bed, so if you reply right away, I probably won't get back to it right away.

 

Yes this is helping, but I have an off topic question about Ezekial. Many have told me he had failed prophecies and I searched and found this.

This is not my work.

"(Here the conquest of Trye looks like a sure thing so Ezekiel makes his prediction)

(Ezek 26:1 NRSV) In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Ezek 26:7 NRSV) For thus says the Lord GOD: I will bring against Tyre from the north King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon, king of kings, together with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great
and powerful army.

(Ezek 26:14 NRSV) I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, says the Lord GOD.

(Ezek 27:32 NRSV) In their wailing they raise a lamentation for you, and lament over you: "Who was ever destroyed like Tyre in the midst of the sea?

(13 years of futile effort by Nebuchadrezzar later…)

(Ezek 29:17 NRSV) In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:

(Here Ezekiel admits he was wrong)

(Ezek 29:18 NRSV) Mortal, King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had expended against it. "

I just wanted to know why would Ezekial have the word of God and be wrong. Or is it just the internet not knowing what they are talking about. There are 3 instances I found claiming Ezekial having failed prophets one claiming the word of the Lord (the afore mentioned one) and 7 being correct with one of the 9 overall being claimed by one as failed and one as succeded. All I want to know is
A. does this historically check out meaning basically was this claim made by Ezekial and then not fulfilled. and

B. how can this not be true.

 

Anon - both things happened, God did bring Nebuchadnezzar against them as the prophet said he would, and tyre was scalped clean, only much later by Alexander the Great.

 

Daniel, I was raised a Christian but I don't know if I was ever actually saved cause I've always done what I've wanted and tried to repent but always fell back into the same old sins. But ya, I know all about what heaven and hell are. My problem is that I actually tried to sell my soul to the devil. Now I'm not worried that the transaction actually happened, I'm worried that God doesn't accept me, want me, forgive me, or want to save me anymore. I don't think he would care to save me since I knew about what a great place heaven is and what a horrible place hell is but still thought it was worth it to burn in hell forever just as long as I got what I wanted in this life. I feel like God doesn't want me cause I was willing to give it all up in one moment with the mindset that I was sealing my fate once and for all. Thoughts and advice please, thank you.

Chad

 

Chad,

The first thing I want to say is that I personally have no advice worth hearing. What I can do however is let you know what the bible says, and pray that the Lord would be gracious in this matter in this way: that you would be given the grace to accept it as true.

Do you remember that Peter denied our Lord three times before the rooster crowed. In that moment his life was more important to him that heaven or Jesus. What I want you to understand here is that even though Peter didn't try to sell his soul to the devil, he had no illusions about who Jesus was, and what denying him at this point said about him.

You see, deep down, Peter, for all his bravado, demonstrated in that moment that Peter was more interested in Peter than in Jesus, even at the peril of his own soul.

I thought of that when I heard your testimony because both your testimony and the actions of Peter share this same thing: you both made a decision that you believed would be in your best interest for this life, but which you were both convinced was probably not in your best interest for the next life.

In a nutshell Chad, what I am trying to point out is that this is exactly what we all look like deep down inside when you take the facade away. Every one of us prefers this life to the next. That is why the bible describes us as fallen. It is the nature of our fallenness being expressed. Most people never have an incident in their life that puts the reality of who they really are on display - we wear masks all the time.

So what you write doesn't make you any more or less damned than any other sinner. If anything, it just means you have no illusions about how good you are, and that is probably a very good thing, because it means that anyone trying to tell you the truth about heaven, hell, God, and the devil won't have to waste time convincing you that you aren't good at heart, but are in fact selfish to the core, and that this selfishness is the very heart of what it means to be a sinner. It isn't that you do bad things but are basically a nice person otherwise, It is that you are first and foremost concerned about yourself, even to the detriment of your eternal state - just as Peter was before he was born again.

(cont)

 

(cont, Chad)

Now when I say Peter's denial took place before he was born again, I mean before he had received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and not before he was justified by faith (saved).

Before Pentecost, Jews were saved by grace through faith just as Christians are today, but they did not receive the benefits of the new covenant because they were under the old covenant system - so they were not" born from above" (i.e. they did not receive the Holy Spirit in the same capacity as all new believers began to receive Him following Pentecost) in the same moment that they received saving faith. So Peter was saved, but not born from above yet. That can be confusing for people who don't know the bible or the distinctions between the old and new covenant.

The Holy Spirit was promised in the old covenant, but wasn't received in the "born from above" capacity when a person came to saving faith in the old covenant. Fro the moment the Holy Spirit fell upon the believers at Pentecost until this day, faith and being born again happen in the same moment, but prior to receiving the new covenant promise of the Holy Spirit, a person (a Jew) was saved by grace through faith without being born from above.

Peter, along with the other apostles and disciples, was born again at pentecost - even though he was already saved. That doesn't happen anymore because Peter etc. were saved under the old covenant and received the Promise (the Holy Spirit) when the new covenant was inaugurated on the day of Pentecost. Since that time, we are saved into the new covenant, and not the old, so that everyone who is saved simultaneously receives the Holy Spirit.

I mention this because when I write about Peter not yet being born from above, I do not mean to imply that He wasn't yet saved - he just wasn't filled with the promised Holy Spirit yet. That's important because it reminds us that even though the Holy Spirit was not yet with Peter, so that Peter was (at the core of his being) entirely given over to selfishness (as was illustrated by his denial), Christ knew beforehand that this was so, and this did not change a thing. God (Christ) dealt with Peter, not according to the state of Peter's heart, but according to grace - that is, Christ chose to be gracious to Peter when Peter deserved no such thing.

Jesus had no illusions about who Peter was. In John 2:24-25 we read this about Jesus, "But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men, and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man." Jesus was well aware of the Peter that no one else knew, and likely that Peter himself wasn't entirely aware of. He knew him thus from the very beginning. In fact, hours before Peter denied Christ, our Lord said to Peter in anticipation of this great moral failure to come (recorded in Luke 22:31-32, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers." - Consider these words spoken by our Lord to Peter who while having faith in God had yet to receive the Holy Spirit (had yet to be born from above). He was justified by his faith, but still wallowing in the sinfulness of a self interest that trumped every other interest even to the point of denying our Lord.

(cont)

 

(cont, Chad)

What I want you to see in this is the reality of what our Lord said in passages such as Mark 3:28 where we read, "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;"

I am convinced by scripture that God is not saving us because we are good, because clearly, we are not. Nor is He saving us because we are smarter than others, or better than them in some way, because God is the one who made us and anything we might imagine could possibly set us above some other person was in fact given to us by God who made us. We cannot look to ourselves and find any reason within to merit God's favour. If imagine that we could do something good enough or "right" enough" to provoke some positive response from God, then we are deceived indeed. For there is nothing good in any of us, and nothing which commends us to God except His own grace.

We do not ask why God let's some people suffer, rather we ask why God has mercy on anyone at all? For none of us deserve it.

Yet here we are. Peter didn't deserve to have the Lord reveal Himself to Him. It wasn't like Peter was a great and good man whom the Lord sought out - no, Peter was a professed sinner. In fact on their first meeting Peter cried out that the Lord should leave him for he was full of sin.

Are you really all that different? Sure you grew up in a Christian home, you had all these advantages, or what we imagine would be advantages; but you squandered all that, being willing to trade it all away for a bowl of hot stew. That makes you a fool, but it doesn't put you beyond the scope of redemption.

Truly, what you need to do Chad is recognize that God's promise remains extended to you. If you knew today that you could be saved by surrendering the rest of your life to God - would you do it? I mean, if I told you that if you give up all your sin, and commit in your heart to follow the Lord Jesus no matte what, for all that is left in your life, would you really do it if you thought you could be saved that way?

Or would you weight it out, and decide that you could never, ever do that - even for the sake of saving your soul?

You see, if you fall into the latter category, the problem is not that you don't think you can be saved, it is that deep down, you really don't want to be reconciled to God, you just don't want to go to hell when you die.

It is important to look that sort of thing in the face. To know that your problem isn't that you don't think it can be done, but rather that even if it could be done, the truth is you refuse to let God rule over you.

That is the -very- thing that Jesus came to save us from. You see, no one wants Jesus to rule over them; that's what being a fallen sinner means. It means we reject God's rule. It is the heart of our problem, and all other problems stem from it.

The only advice I can give you, if you fall into the second category, is to be honest with God about it. Let him know that you have seen the truth about yourself, and that you realize that you cannot change that about your self no matter how hard you try, and cry out to him to change it for you.

If you want to discuss this further, my email is on my blog's page - email me directly and we can take it offline, as it were.

Grace and peace

 

Thank you very much for this, i am a Christian, maybe not as active as i should, but i am a firm believer of Jesus Christ. I have lately feared that during my life i could have been tricked by satan for selling my soul without me knowing about it. I have always said to myself that God owns my soul thus making it impossible for me to sell it. After reading this i understand that there i dont have to worry.
Once again, thanks.

 

What i posted above is probably because i tend to be obsessive with certain issues.

 

Hi, Thanks for this article. When I was in middle school or so, I kept thinking Satan wanted my soul, and so tired of the fight, I just said one day "Take it." I have since then become a Christian by the grace of God in opening my eyes to my sin and evil and lawbreaking against Him and my justly deserving His condemnation of me forever, but also the glorious truth that Jesus, who is God and King of All, but also fully human, loves me and died for me and through repenting and trusting in Him and His substitutionary atonement where He took all my sin on Himself and God's wrath that I deserve on Himself and shed His blood for my sins, ie, trusting in Him and His Work alone, I am justified before God and no longer condemned. I have repented and prayed based on this to ask Jesus to save and forgive me b/c he wants to and loves me and "will not cast out any who come to him" and fully accepted Him as both my Lord and Savior. But I also have scrupulosity, a form of OCD where you obsess over what is most important to you in the "religous" arena--not that I see Christianity as a "religion" in sense that the world does. It's about a relationship with the Father through Jesus, and with Jesus as well, and I really do love Him and have committed my life to Him and treasure Him and want to be with Him and try my best to serve Him b/c He has saved me. Essentially, I trust that I was created for Him and for His glory and to be under His authority and that I will therefore only find happiness and satisfaction in Him. But anyhow, this episode from my childhood comes up from time to time and I obsess about it and freak out and think, maybe I'm not really saved b/c maybe the devil has my soul. I have been told and reassured before by other Christians that he cannot do this, cannot take or buy your soul, and that has reassured me, but sometimes b/c of my OCD I have these episodes where I worry again and also probably b/c of spiritual attack. Anyway, this article is one more weapon I can use against the lie of the devil having my soul that my OCD/ enemy uses against me to try to paralyze me and make me ineffective for the Kingdom. I mean, I know, based on the Bible that it is an irrational thought, but with OCD, those thoughts can take hold and be hard to deal with. Thanks again.

Jeffrey

 

The name of the blogger of the above post says my wife's name, Anna Beall, but I am the one who posted it and signed it, and I am Jeffrey Beall--just for clarification.

 

Thanks for the testimony there Jeff. A lot of people read this post who suffer from OCD, and your testimony will go some way to assuring these.

 

Daniel,

I have been dealing with something just like this. Im glad your wrote this article.

When I was a kid I saw a tv show where one of the characters made a bet with the devil, in which he bet that if something did or did not happen, then the devil would get his soul. This whole concept really bothered and disturbed me and over the years I have struggled with fleeting, or "intrusive thoughts" passing through my mind and it scares me into thinking that I have done the same.

I became a Christian when I was 8 years old and I believe that the only way to spend eternity in heaven with God is through His son Jesus, and the blood that He shed on the cross to pay the price of our sins.

I guess it just scares me because I can't seem to get these thoughts to leave my mind. For example, I might see a traffic light and wonder if the light is about to turn from green to red. In my mind the phrase "i bet my soul" will flash through my head and it makes me terriffied that I just bet my soul to the devil or something.

I have been doing alot of reading about intrusive thoughts and some people say that often times whatever your biggest fear is, then that is what your OCD will take form off. My biggest fear would be losing my soul and being cut off from God forever, so that might be why I have trouble getting these thoughts out of my head, it is like the more I try shake them off the more agressive they get. It's like telling yourself to not think about a pink elephant, then you of course immidiately picture a pink elephant in your mind!

I also had read that the unforgivable sin was blaspemy against the Holy Spirit, and then that of course created more problems for me in my mind. I was so scared of commiting that sin, that my mind started to have fleeting, intrusive thoughts of saying all sorts of terrible things that I definately did not really mean.

I probably sound crazy to all the people reading this, but if you ahve any input I'd love to hear it. I am trying to just ignore all these things in my head, and hopefully with time they will leave.

I talked to someone on the Billy Graham hotline and they said they do not beleive that you can lose your soul/salvation to the devil from some thoughts just flying through your mind, it still really bothers me though.

 

In scripture, the notion of blaspheming the Holy Spirit had to do with attributing the miracles of Christ to the devil. The Pharisees were doing that, and Christ told them plainly that He was not casting out demons by the power of demons, but rather by the Holy Spirit. He then explained that they were not blaspheming Him, for if they were blaspheming Him, He would forgive them, but they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

I think that anyone who attributes the miracles of Christ to Satan is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I don't think some fleeting thought is the same thing.

I think there is a difference between sin and temptation. I mean, Christ was tempted to sin, but did not sin. In the same way, some intrusive thought may be a temptation - a call to the individual to believe something ludicrous. But the sin is not in the temptation, but rather in the following through on that temptation.

Thus, even if you are tempted to believe that Jesus was demon possessed, unless you actually have a settled opinion to that effect, you have not, in my understanding, committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

Thanks Daniel, I really appreciate your quick response.

What about the part about betting your soul, what are your thoughts on that? I think I know deep down that it is not realy, that satan cannot get my soul by trying to trick me into thinking I ahve lose it from some bet or intrusive thought about betting my soul, but it still really gets to me sometimes. I know that God forgives all sin, but its like the devil wants me to think that I have lost my soul to him in a bet or something and that there is nothing I can do to get it back. I dont know, its just something that I have worried about for a long time, and these intrusive thoughts are very hard to make go away.

 

Anon - the same logic that says that you cannot sell what is not your own property (i.e. God is the owner of the soul you have, so you cannot sell it since it does not belong to you), in that same way, you cannot gamble with someone else's currency, in this case, you cannot bet God's soul any more than you can bet someone else's life. It just isn't yours to bet.

You can say, "I bet my soul" and lose and it means nothing because it isn't your property.

Now, even if that were something you had to be concerned about (and it isn't), yet it couldn't change the reality of what scripture says. Just as we had no say in being born, we had no say in being made steward over the eternal soul we received. The "rules" associated with this soul we have received are not made up by our own fears, superstition and/or ingenuity - but are written down objectively for all to see (so that no rational person capable of reading and understanding need ever have the kinds of worries you describe). In scripture we learn therefore, two things that make the whole notion of selling your soul entirely moot.

[1] If you sin, you will be cast into hell on the day of judgment, along with Satan who himself is a creature, if more powerful and privileged than humans, is nevertheless subject to damnation, and no ruler in hell, but just another participant, incapable of owning anyone else's soul, but certainly able to corrupt others by tempting them to sin.

[2] If you have condemned yourself to hell by rebelling against the God who made you, you may be redeemed if you seek to be reconciled to God through trusting God made provision for your salvation by the sending of His own Son Jesus to be the Christ - the anointed one - the Savior not unlike Noah who saved all who obeyed God by securing them in the ark which passed through the same judgment that destroyed all who disobeyed God, so too those who seek to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ were united with Him in his death and again in His resurrection, so that through Christ they passed through God's wrath on Calvary, where they were united with Christ by faith, and where their sin received God's wrath in full, by virtue of their being united together with Christ. When Christ died, they also died so that God's wrath against their sin was punished in full, and again, when Christ was raised on account of his innocence, in order to raise the Christ again, God had to raise to life those who had been united together with him, so that all who were united to Christ by trusting in God's stated provision - these were raised again with Christ to new life.

There are, therefore, those who sin and receive the penalty for their sin on judgment day - these are they who do not receive Christ in this life. Then there are those who likewise sin in this life, but have turned to Christ to be saved by faith, and these have had all their sins, past, present, and future, punished forever, once and for all, in Christ, so that their is no longer condemnation for them - they will pass into life eternal on judgment day - not because they are better people, but because they were in the ark (Christ) on the day of wrath.

It doesn't matter on that last day if one of their sins was to attempt to barter or gamble their soul away - bid deal! This will just be one of billions and trillions of ignorant sins they have committed, no more significant than any other ignorant sin.

 

Daniel thanks so much for the help. I have been a Christian since I was in 2nd grade and have struggled with traits of OCD since I was young. I think that this is one of the traits, getting thoughts, ideas, phrases in my mind and not being able to get them out. I think that my very fear alone feeds these intrusive thougths and thus makes it harder to get rid of them.

I agree with everything that you have said and now I must pray to God to help ease that anxiety from my mind. I dont think that I ever believed that any of that was really possible, but for some reason the fact that I could not get it out of my head really scared me and cause me to fear these intrusive thoughts. I want nothing more than to serve God and be the best Christian that I can be. I am truely thankful for Jesus paying the price for me sin even though I absolutely did not deserve it. I just feel very guilty and like I am evil or something when I cannot get these intrusive thoughts out of my mind. But that is probably how satan wants me to feel now that I think about it.

Again, thank you for all the advice, I find myself re-reading it often for comfort. God Bless.

 

Daniel thanks so much for the help. I have been a Christian since I was in 2nd grade and have struggled with traits of OCD since I was young. I think that this is one of the traits, getting thoughts, ideas, phrases in my mind and not being able to get them out. I think that my very fear alone feeds these intrusive thougths and thus makes it harder to get rid of them.

I agree with everything that you have said and now I must pray to God to help ease that anxiety from my mind. I dont think that I ever believed that any of that was really possible, but for some reason the fact that I could not get it out of my head really scared me and cause me to fear these intrusive thoughts. I want nothing more than to serve God and be the best Christian that I can be. I am truely thankful for Jesus paying the price for me sin even though I absolutely did not deserve it. I just feel very guilty and like I am evil or something when I cannot get these intrusive thoughts out of my mind. But that is probably how satan wants me to feel now that I think about it.

Again, thank you for all the advice, I find myself re-reading it often for comfort. God Bless.

 

Anon - you're welcome.

It is always assuring when we find out that we are not the only person that the enemy is attacking in a particular way.

 

Daniel,

I don't mean to bug you again, but yesterday I had another intrusive thought that is just really getting under my skin.

I was driving to the park to take my dog on a walk, and I was battling all these thoughts in my head telling myself that they are not real and that satan needs to leave me alone. I began to think to myself that God is in control of all things, and that nothing happens that is not according to His Will. Then out of nowhere, I had an intrusive thought that whatever happens to me, it is God's will, and that if I were to go to hell then it is God's will. It greatly disturbs me to even type those words, (I feel like it is a sin to even type this) but that was the fleeting thought that went through my head.

I was very stunned and bothered that that had just passed through my mind, and I certainly do NOT believe that it is God's will for anyone to go to hell. I just do not want God to think that I meant that thought. I really and truely love God and His son Jesus. It just greatly disturbs me that these thoughts fly through my head. It's like my mind is trying to set myself up all the time into thinking that I have lost my soul and I am forever doomed! I don't want God to think that I meant that thought, but I just feel guilty for it even passing through my mind, I am truely tortured by it!

I hope that God is not mad at me for typing those thoughts. I feel like it is wrong for me to even type those, but I wanted to get them out and bring them to the light instead of keeping them bottled up inside the rest of my life. I just need to know and find a way to always trust that no matter what kind of fleeting thought goes through my head, that God knows that I do not mean it and will always forgive me for it. I know deep down in my heart that God will always forgive me, but all this junk that the devil tries to whisper in my ear makes it foggy and harder to see the truth.

The problem with this kind of OCD is that even when I start to find comfort and not worry about these thoughts, satan will bring in other thoughts that might be worded different or something, like this one, and it causes me to worry "ok God forgave me for these over here, but what about this one?"

I really hope that God forgives me and that He is not mad at me for writing this. Sometimes I stress and worry that having these thougths in my mind is one thing, but then like if I actualyl write/type them then they are officially bad and sinful.

 

Anon -

Jesus was tempted in all things that are common to men.

Think that through.

In order to be tempted to lust, the thought of some lustful act would have had to pass through the mind of our Lord.

Our Lord certainly did not entertain such stray thoughts, for in entertaining them we sin, but simply having some sinful possibility flash thruogh our mind is not sinful, it is a temptation.

Having a firm distinction in our understanding between sin and temptation will help us to navigate whether or not our guilt over a thing is rational or not. If I pursue some lustful thought, entertain it in my mind and allow it to express itself more fully, then I am giving into that temptation, and any guilt I feel over it is right and appropriate, as I am feeling the shame of having entertained some sinful thought. If on the other hand I am assualted by some image or thought, and I refuse to pursue it in my thinking, but feel guilty for having even thought about it, then my guilt is misplaced - founded upon a wrong understanding of both sin and temptation, having failed to distinguish between the two.

I suggest that if you're not pursuing these thoughts, but turning away from them the moment you get them, then you are not sinning, and your guilt is misplaced.

Even our Lord was tempted, but temptation is not sin.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks so much Daniel, I needed to hear that.

So the fact that I physically typed that stuff out to you is not a sin either right?


I have fears that since I physically typed it, it is not longer just "in my head" and therefore it becomes sin. I know that that is probably wrong, my anxiety is just getting to me I think.

 

Anon, the fact that the bible records Christ's temptations doesn't make them sinful, nor was it a sin for the writer of scripture to record them. Remembering and articulating a temptation is not sinful unless in doing so you pursue the sin that is being tempted; for example, if I remember that someone did something mean to me yesterday, and that in the moment of my understanding it, I was tempted to hate the person for his or her actions, but chose at that time to not to pursue that temptation, I would not have sinned, though I was inclined to do so in the flesh. I choose to walk according to the Spirit instead, and in doing so avoided the sin I was tempted with. If in remembering the mean act today, I describe it, and write about it, I have not sinned, but if in describing it I remember how I wanted to hate the person, and today indulge that same temptation, then I would be sinning, for I would be indulging the temptation today that I, in the Spirit, withstood yesterday.

In other words, writing down the fact that you were tempted does not mean you are sinning, it means you are admitting openly that you were tempted. We call that kind of behaviour "walking in the light" - that is, conducting ourselves on earth without pretense and without hiding the fact that we are tempted, and even that we sometimes sin. If however, in describing the fact that you had these thoughts, you agreed with them and pursued them in your thinking - then it would have been sin, particularly and decisively the part about agreeing with them. If something awful pops in your head and the only effect it has it so make you go "yuck!" and "That's not true!" and "I don't believe that!" then you're not sinning.

I used to think that I had no control over my thoughts, and as such, I would try to not think about a thing, and it would, by virtue of my effort, be the one thing I could not, for the love of me, stop thinking about. The more I tried to dismiss the thought, the bigger it seemed to get. One day I determined that I truly wasn't the victim I had always imagined myself to be, that the only reason this obsessive behaviour had power over me was because I was terrified that what I was doing was damning myself. In order to overcome the obsessive behaviour I had to overcome the terror of damnation. For me at least, this happened when I became not only familiar with the truths of scripture, but dependant upon the God behind those truths.

I hope that helps.

 

Daniel,

It definately helps alot. I am thankful that God allowed me to find your site, I really do feel that you havea helped me alot.
It will probably just take me some time to work through this. I am a person who has high anxiety, sometimes I am worried, stressed, or just sad for no reason at all. Thats kind of how this is, I stress and worry about it even though in the back of my mind I know that I dont need to be.

These intrusive thougths are attacking me multiple times every hour of the day, and I think it just really beats me down and wears on me. Even though I know that I cannot really "bet" my soul or anything like that, having to constantly battle these thoughts and wonder why this is happening to me is very miserable and hard for me to deal with. I feel like satan keeps trying to create scenarios and different thoughts in my head to convince me that I have lost my salvation, but I have to be straong and believe in what is true, that God loves me and will hold tight onto me no matter what kind of thoughts might flash in my head.

I have read that some of the best ways to deal with OCD/ intrusive thougths are to just let them pass through your head and ignore them, what do you think of that? I worry that if I just let them pass then it seems like I am accepting them. However, I think that ignoring them could help me to not focus or worry about them as much and maybe eventually I would forget about them that way. It seems like when I always react to tehm in my head and stress over them that that only makes them hang around or come back even more. I read that intrusive thoughts are like an ant hill. Most people who step in an ant hill just keep walking, but if you step in it and stand there, and freak out about it, then the ants get everywhere, all over your leg and you get bit, and the sitaution just gets worse. Maybe, if I just let these thoughts pass and ignore them that could help? What do you think?

 

No one has posted on here for awhile. I am struggling with something called intrusive thoughts. Basically I worry and stress over blasphemous thoughts, and I have been having a very hard time keeping them out of my hear. They are able to just freely foat through my head, like a fleeting bird or something! Anyway, I have been struggling with this for about 2 years now.

I want God to know that I do not mean these thoughts at all, but I worry so much that I get confused and I think satan wants to try and make me think that I am deliberatley having them.

The thoughts range from saying bad things about God, to saying I'd rather go to hell than heaven (which is absolutley not true!), to saying that I'd rather be rich than go to heaven (again, not my true feelings). I feel bad even typing this stuff, but I wanted to show you the kind of bad, intrusive thoughts that flash in my head. If anyone could offer me some advice I'd really appreciate it.

I am so exhausted and tired of going around in this circle all the time. I want to be confident and know that God forgives these intrusive thgouths, and does not hold them against me.

 

GarBear,

Intrusive thoughts, especially when blasphemous are a pretty common occurance in OCD. Martin Luther, for example, is said to have suffered from intrusive thoughts - even to the point of being tormented by them. According to some historians, Luther experienced urges to curse God and Jesus, and was even plagued by unwelcome images of what he imagined to be Satan's behind.

There are, I believe, two things that give these unwelcome thoughts their profound hold on a person. The first is the fear that in thinking them they are committing an unspeakable sin against God - something they by no means want to do, and the second is the thought that these thoughts are entirely involuntary, such that they have no control over themselves in the thinking of them.

Thus the fear is compounded, since the person becomes convinced that he is powerless in the grip of these thoughts, and this fear of not thinking "X" causes them to think of "X" all the more often, and so the whole thing becomes a cycle that feeds on itself.

The way out of it, I believe is to come to terms with the fact that these thoughts are just that: thoughts. In order to keep myself from blasphemy, I must know what is blasphemy. If I imagine some blasphemous expression, I am not blaspheming, I am simply acknowledging that such an expression is blasphemous. Certainly I recoil from such expressions - but simply imaginging them is not the same as actually expressing them.

Consider the person who pays lipservice to God. His mouth says he loves the Lord, but it is all empty and superficial. Is God fooled by this empty profession? According to scripture, God is not fooled.

Now if my mind or my mouth utters some blasphemy, that my heart (i.e. the core of my being) denies - is God fooled by that? Does God ever look at a man's mouth when his heart says otherwise?

Knowing the truth, that these thoughts are just that (thoughts!), someone who is tormented in this way can derail the fear cycle. So what if I have some dumb thought? God isn't fooled, so why should I be?

The mechanism that drives cumpulsion to obsess is self preservation - we want to preserve ourselves at all costs, and if we imagine a thing to be a real and present threat we cannot help but to focus on it. If there is a rattle snake in the room with you, you don't ignore it - you can't ignore it because you know that its presence is a threat. So also when we are convinced that some thought is "eternally" dangerous, how can we avoid fretting about it? That is why the truth sets you free, because the moment you understand that God judges the heart, and that these things do not reflect what you want, but only what you fear, you will see how empty they really are and, I believe, be set free.

 

I appreciate your insight, and I know in my heart that you are right, it's just difficult because I worry about these intrusive thoughts even when there is no reason to.

Sometimes I will be watching TV or a movie, and I'll think, if "X" happens then I'll go to hell, and of course "X" does happen and it just makes me totally freak out! It's like it just uncontroloably flashes in my mind and then I am scared that I am doomed.

Or maybe I see an attractive woman at the grocery store (I'm married) it will flash in my mind, "if I turn my head to check her out (lust) then I go to hell." Sometimes I will fall into the sinful temptation and check the woman out, then I feel doomed yet again!

It's almost like my fears are creating any and every possible scenario to get me to be afraid that I have somehow lost my soul or doomed myself and that there is nothing that I can do to get it back.

 

Garbear, I hear you man. I hear you.

 

I just need to trust in God and know that no matter what I do, He loves me and is always ready to forgive the moment I ask.

 

Hey Daniel,

I know that I am driving you crazy, I might really have OCD, I'm not sure.

Something happened this past Friday night that is really driving me crazy and has me really worried.

I was sitting at home watching TV when some program came on that had scantily clad women. I found myself tempted to watch it but my wife was in the kitchen and I decided that it was probably not a good idea, a) becuase it was wrong, and b) because there was a strong possiblity that she would have heard it.

Anyway I am an idiot male and I decided to hit "record" on the DVR for me to view the show later. As I was thinking about wether I should record it or not, I had a really bad intrusive thought flash in my head. It said "if I do this then I go to hell".

A quick backstory. In my past I had a really hard stuggle with pornography and about 2 years ago it all came out to my wife and it was a really tough thing but we got through it. Every now and then though I will find myself being tempted whenever some trash like this comes on TV, and sometimes I fall into that temptation to watch it.

Needless to say, the intrusive thought really bothered me but I told myself that it was an intrusive thougth and not really my heart.

I fell into the temptation and hit record and watched the program a little later that night, then deleted it. Ever since I have been really scared that the "scenario" that my mind set up could be true. I just feel paralyzed sometimes by these thoughts. I'm afraid that God will think that since I hit record and watched the program that I was agreeing to the thought. This stuff happens a good bit where I set myself up right before a sinful act with this kind of thought, and then when I give into the particular tempation I am worried that I lost my salvation or soul.

What do you make of all this?

I'm extremely worried about this.

 

Garbear,

The fear that you are going to damn yourself is the fuel that keeps this particular cycle going. You are afraid that you can damn yourself, so when a thought comes, you literally panic. You are afraid that your mind will think some sort of damning thought and thereby damn you, but in order to be afraid of the thing, you have to actually think about what it is you're afraid of and SHAZAM! It happens.

Here is what I think. I think that contrary to what scripture says, you believe you truly do damn yourself when you allow yourself to think these ridiculous thoughts. I think that the way out of this cycle begins with recogizing a few truths and applying some Christian practicum.

First, you must understand that if you are in Christ you will not go to hell for giving into a sinful temptation, even as it is certain that you will suffer torment in your soul for doing so. Scripture teaches that you cannot please your sinful desire and please the Holy Spirit at the same time - you can only be pleasing to one master. In order to obey your sinful desires, you need to suppress the Holy Spirit, or (in the words of scripture) "grieve" the Holy Spirit. No Christian will be content grieving the Holy Spirit, and no Christian will find it a simple thing to "grieve" their sinful desires either. But every temptation will end in either the Spirit being grieved as the sinful desire is indulged, or the sinful desire will be suppressed and the Holy Spirit "indulged". Our default is set to obey the sinful desire - which is why we are called to "overcome" it.

This we do by grace, for it is God who works in us (in the Person of the Holy Spirit) both to give us the desire to obey, and to empower our obedience when we do. It isn't that we get zapped so that obedience is easy - it is that God works obedience in us by convicting us of our sin, and causing us to hate it like He does.

Second, you can stop doing the whole "I am going to sell my soul if..." thing. I don't care how convinced you are of the contrary. the truth is it is just a dumb, compulsive habit you have. If you really want to be free from it, change your habit. The moment you begin to exercise this old habit - use that as the trigger for your new habit. I suggest that every time this compulsion grips you, you simply recite the truth to yourself (I can't lose my salvation, nor can I actually sell my soul, since it isn't mine, and the devil can't purchase it, because he doesn't have any currency, and God (who owns my soul) isn't about to sell it), then use that as a cue to pray and tell God the truth - you want to do something bad, and that you are so afraid of damning yourself that you have given yourself over to doctrinally wayward compulsions, and that you aren't going to let your own imagination dictate the truth to you, but are willing to surrender yourself to the truth that is in God's word.

I suggest you become familiar with God's word by reading it daily - at least a few chapters each day, and spend time in -real- prayer, you know the kind where you're not just playing at it, but really talking to God.

It's a start.

Also, stop sinning against your wife. You need to repent of that garbage today.

 

Thank you Daniel, your insight is far more helpful than you may realize.

I'm in my mid-twenties, and what is weird is that these intrusive thoguths only started in my head about 2 years ago.

I had struggled with pornography since high school and all through out college. Over the years it began to escalate and I became even more chained up by this sin. I always told myself that as soon I was married I would be able to just stop but I was very wrong. Shortly after getting married I found that I was still very much enslaved by the sin, and it grew to a point where I was meeting women in person and a few times it even got pysical.

After about a year of doing this God shook my world and I confessed everything to my wife. I had a feeling that I could not keep it all bottled up inside any longer, I could not live this lie any more, I actually felt physically ill.

Confessing all of that to my wife was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life. Telling her that I had betrayed her trust absolutely broke my heart. She was extremely hurt, and to this day almost 2 years later I am still earning back her trust. We care deeply for each other, and we are still married. To this day I really do not know who I was when I did all of those horrible things. I love my wife and have absolutely no desire to hurt her, yet I did those things even thought I knew they were wrong.

I tell you all this because not long after all that happened I began stressing and fearing that I was not a Christian anymore. I became a Christian at the age of 8 and was raised in the Baptist church. I did not understand how I could have committed such sin when I was a believer.

I became obsessed with reading about the "unpardonable sin" and fearing that I might have committed it. When I read that the "unpardonable sin" was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, my mind became obsessed with trying to make sure I don't do that, so naturally that is when the intrusive thoughts began happening all the time, every hour of the day!!

I also stumbled upon some Roman Catholic sites that explained the concepts of "mortal" and "venial" sins. This bothered me even more because I had always been taught growing up that sin was sin in God's eyes, and that in His eyes, all sin separated us from Him and none was worse than the other. But when I read these Catholic sites they said that certain sins were worse than others (mortal) and would cause you to lose grace with God until you confessed them to a Priest and he would tell you some specific prayers to say in order to have God's grace again. They believed that "mortal" sins were sins that broke the 10 Commandments, and in my opinion that could be alot of people's sins!!

It just really bothered me because I had always been taught that I only have to go straight to God for forgiveness, not some priest.

Anyway, that is sort of how I ended up here. Every since I have been fighting and for the most part winning the battle against my sexual sins, these other things seemed to come up right after that.

It is like Satan is trying to throw something new and different into my life to "sideline" me and make me a Christian that is always worried and not very effective to advancing God's Kingdom.

 

Garbear,

Stay away from Catholic theology until after you have read the bible cover to cover a few times in a row. The only people who give shrift to that sort of hoobaloo are those who either don't know what the scriptures say (properly ignorant) or those who deny what the scriptures say in order to pursue some hapless traditional mythology (woefully ignorant).

To be sure, the best way to cure Catholicism is by reading scripture.

 

Hi Daniel,

As I can see you been of great help to many people in this very post. This matter comes up consistently especially with people experiencing OCD. I have to admit I am one of those people , but have recently decided either I take control of my own life, or let some fleeting thoughts that are untrue control me. Well after making amends with GOD, I have found about a couple of weeks ago that, after not giving into a thought that told me I would lose my soul, I have been feeling terrible. It is not the thoughts themsleves that bother me so much as in the way I feel now. I really feel it inside my chest that something is missing. I feel myself not being the "true" me anymore. So it is not even the thoughts anymore, I feel as if I have lost my soul. My soul I believe is what makes me ME. Makes me feel, makes me able to express myself deeply unlike no other. My soul is what gives me light and able to give my light onto others. And I feel it was taken away from me, not because of anything else but this emptiness I feel in my chest...as to where I believe my soul once was. It scares me, I cry I plead , I ask GOD to save me somehow. None of this, seems to work because everyday I awake I feel that same emptiness where it used to be full. I ussed to be able to cry, and cry wholeheartedly, now it seems I am able to cry, but those same emotions of intensity I felt are not there anymore. The love of my life, where once I could reach him, I feel in the past weeks when this happened to me, and I spoken to him once again. It just was not the same, it was like who I used to be to him is not fully there anymore...Please help I am so scared because I never wanted any of this to happen to me..AND I DO believe all that you say..BUT why is it I FEEL IT ..NOT even a thought I feel it is gone...please help :(

 

Danielle,

I am sorry to hear that you're feeling dismayed in this way - that must be quite disheartening. I hope something I say will be of value to you both today and again eternally.

I am going to post something today that I plan to refer to in responding to your question. I ask for you patience as I prepare that, write it, then come back here and answer your question more fully.

 

Danielle,

If you read my latest post (see: here) you will get a quick biblical survey of what scripture means when it communicates ideads concerning immortality and the soul.

The soul, as described in scripture, is that consciousness associated with our being that persists after we die, until judgment day comes - at the resurrection of the dead takes place and our consciousness is reunited with our flesh - which if we are in Christ, will be redeemed and incorruptible.

Thus the notion that your soul is missing however dreadful that must feel, is a mistaken one. your soul cannot be missing for if it was you would not be breathing. Nor can the ownership of it be missing for God still owns it just as he owns every life. No one can purchase it, and no one can lose the "right" to it in some way by thinking this thought, that thought, or some other thought.

That isn't to say that what you are feeling isn't real. Whatever it is, it is very real - it is your possible diagnosis that is off.

Whatever this emptiness is, it has nothing to do with the possession of your soul - as you clearly possess it presently, and God clearly owns it biblically.

If I had to guess as to why you feel that way, I would say that it is because you imagine that God is one way, and you cry out that image, and it doesn't respond in the manner that you expect God should respond - and you conclude therefore that something is wrong with you rather than there being something wrong with your understanding of God.

Does that make sense? I am not trying to be cold or mean or anything like that - I am just being as honest as I know how to be. I could be wrong, but you are asking me, and that is how I would answer.

My advice is to read the scriptures for your self and believe them. Ask God to reveal what His word means to you, and to strengthen your faith so that you do not edit God's word, as some do, throwing out this and that because you think it is too primitive to believe - but instead commit yourself to suspend criticism of God's word, and allow yourself to be open to the possibility that God's word is in fact true and accurate, and that every last bit of it is real and right. If you can do that, and read the word with a heart that is thus humbled, I expect you will find that (in time!) a lot of the fog you are presently experiencing will dissipate.

Let me know if that helps at all.

 

thank you daniel. you've saved someone today. very uplifting and freeing. many thanks

 

just for the record, Daniel doesn't save anyone, but the truth, given life by the Holy Spirit - that saves through Christ.

:)

 

I am asking for permission to use this information in a video. I want to be able to link to this page as well as quote some things and discuss it basically to expand it to a wider audience. Get back to me whenever you read this. Thank you.

 

Calabiyau, I hope you won’t feel put out if I decline, I don’t really know enough about you to invest you with that kind of permission.

Feel free to paraphrase anything you find here, and especially the main point of this article* but please, no links or mentions. I am not trying to become popular, I am simply ministering the scriptures to people. My preference would be that rather than point to me, you point to the scriptures directly.

There were, of course, two main points in this post, one was the original*, the other came up in the meta (OCD, as it relates to the main issue). Until I wrote this article, I had no idea there were so many OCD sufferers who found this particular fixation the focus of their OCD. Again, feel free to paraphrase, but please refrain from lifting, or linking - a lot of the people who commented on this blog did not do so with the intention to be linked to a video by doing so, and so I feel I would be a poor steward of their trust if I gave permission for linking and lifting.

Paraphrase good, copy, lift, link bad.

Thanks for asking though, and thanks for the interest.

*main point: that a person doesn’t need to sell his or her soul to Satan to be sure that he or she is going to end up in hell when he or she dies, all a person needs to do in order to be certain that happens, according to the scriptures themselves (which most people fail to read) they just need to continue to reject Christ

 

Wow when I googled "How to sell your soul" so I could see what people do just for happiness I was amazed!Amazed because I couldn't believe what it said! You can find happiness with God not with Satan. If it weren't for the Bible a lot of people wouldn't even know who Satan is. I'm just in shock because of what that website was saying about God.

 

I am a young man. This blog is very helpful I have yet to read all the comments. But whats your take on the illuminati/freemason/secret societies? Also how would one go about making this knowledge widespread. I am a sinner who believes and love Christ, who is finding God for himself and this blog clears up slot of misconceptions I had and would love to open people's eyes and hearts. Also what is the difference between He'll and lake of fire? I like to thank you for verifying Satan has very limited power and his most dangerous weapon is only lying.

 

Revolutionati, I am glad that this blog, and this post in particular has been helpful in pointing you to those scriptures which clear up many of the misconceptions associated with the notion of selling one's soul.

Christ spoke of hell as a "fiery hell" (Matthew 5:22), as a place one could be cast into (presumably on judgment day).

When John the Apostle speaks of a fiery place that sinners are cast into, he calls it the "lake of fire".

I think that John and Jesus are describing the same place. Hell, or "The Lake Of Fire".

Thanks for reading the blog.

 

I have read through your post some of the comments. I too am struggeling with some OCD issures but my situation is somewhat different. I went on a website to watch movies online and next to the terms was a "I surrender my soul". I took this as a joke, given the tone of the website. Of course I cliked the button and went on. Since then, I can't eat, so worried that I have damned myself eternally. Could this be the one sin He can't forgive? I have sinced prayed multiple times hoping for a sign that I haven't unintentionally damned myself. I never would have done such if I thought it was serious. I always have felt God owned me, heart body and soul. But my thoughts keep going back to Eve in the Garden. She was tricked into eating the apple by the serpent and was such punished by God. What if the website was Satan's way of "tricking" people out of their souls? I read Ezekiel 18:4, and that makes me feel somewhat better. Could you please help?

 

Anon. Thanks for taking the time to share your concerns. I hope I can be of some assistance.

First, because even the smallest sin damns us, and again, since every last one of us sins as soon as we are able, we do not have to wonder whether or not we are damned by this, or damned by that. Scripture tells us plainly: If we have sinned even one sin, we are damned, and all the good works and perfect obedience in the world can never, ever undo that.

So if you have sinned in your life, then don't fret about it - your are certainly damned already, and whether you said such and such or not will not damn you in some "extra" way.

The problem isn't whether or not you clicked on this or said that - the problem is whether or not you are willing to be reconciled to God on His terms. God isn't up in heaven with a grand set of scales, weighing out good deeds against our evil ones, and waiting to see if we are good enough to go to heaven. The smallest sin disqualifies us, and earns us a place in hell - so who cares whether you clicked on something that said, "I surrender my soul"? The truth is you have surrendered yoruself to sin every day of your life, whether you clicked some box on a website, or not.

So don't that bug you.

What ought to bug you however (presuming you have a concern for your soul) is how you can escape the wrath of God that is coming against every sinner (which includes you if you have ever sinned even once).

 

Now here is the thing: If were united together with (and in) Christ when God raised Him from the dead, then you have already passed through death and into life, this life is both eternal and irrevovable. Nothing can erase or undo that. If you are not in Christ, then you are no more damned by clicking the thing, than you were before you clicked it.

The point is that if you are truly saved, then clicking such a thing cannot "unsave" you, and if you are not saved, then clicking it does not damn you, since you are damned already because of your own sins which God will punish you for eternally even if you had never clicked on the soul surrendering joke.

When you understand that your salvation depends entirely upon whether or not you have come to God to be reconciled back into an obedient, surrendered relationship with Him, by and through trusting entirely in Christ's sacrifice, rather than your own good works, to appease God's wrath over your sin. If you have done this, then click on the button a thousand times, or a trillion, it won't matter, you are Christ's and such things are empty as empty can be. If you are not in Christ by faith, then it doesn't matter if you click on it or not because you were just as damned before you clicked on it as after you clicked on it, because you are a sinner, and your soul on that account, according to scripture, is already forfeit.

So whether you're truly saved or already lost, clicking on such a thing does nothing (absolutely nothing!) to change the state you were in before you clicked it. It is an empty thing - a plaything for those who are ignorant of the truths found in scripture.

Now. As to the unforgivable sin; There is only one sin that a man can commit for which God will not fogive Him, and that sin is tied to both the Holy Spirit and Christ. Specifically, it was to deny that the power at work in Christ was the power of the God in the person of the Holy Spirit. Are you convinced that Jesus Christ performed miracles by the power of the devil? If not, then you are not committing the unforgivable sin.

Listen - you cannot accidently, or incidently commit the unforgivable sin. It takes time to convince yourself to (that is, to develop an entirely settled opinion) that Christ was not God, and did His miracles by the power of the devil. It isn't that you think the thought and WHAM you've sinned the unforgivable sin, were that the case everyone who had knowledge that there was an unforgivable sin, would have committed it, for who can imagine what it is without thinking about it?

No, anon, the unforgivable sin is never something you can idly imagine, or even if your idle imagination happens to swing into the compulsive and obssessive end of the spectrum. Unless you truly believe that Jesus did miracles by the power of the devil, or said another way, unless you truly believe that the Spirit of God was in Jesus - you have not committed the unforgivable sin.

Now, if anything I have said causes you to worry about your salvation, or you are not certain whether you are in Christ or not - drop me an email (I link to my email on the blog), and I will consider it a great honor and privilege to share whatever I can to help you know the estate of your soul.

Dan

 

Sorry annon - it took me too posts to answer that.

 

Dsniel,
I can not tell you how much I appreciate yout time in responding to me. I do have a question about the what you said: about the Spirit of God being in Jesus? This is the unforgivable sin? Would you mind explaining further?
Also, if you had pressed the button and then thought it through later as maybe not a joke, would you still have no doubts in your head? would you still believe everything you just told me? Content in your salvation? (I am asking this seeking an honest answer--not trying to be disrespectful)
I know what I read in the passage about God owning my soul. I guess I just have an almost dibilitating fear that it's misinterpreted. God "breathed life" into us--our soul--then it's in our keeping? I hate to take up too much of your time but I can not explain to you how much this is affecting me.

 

P.S.
Will you point to some passages I can read for clarification on these things? in regards to my soul and entering heaven?

 

Anon, No worries.

In Matthew 9:34 Christ is accused by the Pharisees of casting out demons by the ruler of the demons: But the Pharisees were saying, “He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons.”

Christ replies in verses 25 -28: “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."

Try to appreciate what was going on. I mean, they saw that this man was indeed casting out demons - and not like other so-called exorcists who chanted and danced, and burned incense and had a big ceremony, and for all that couldn't cast out a single demon but maybe one time in twenty - and even then the demon just came back - No, Jesus said a word, and the demons came out of these people screaming and begging for mercy.

They couldn't deny this; but rather than admit that Christ was whom He claimed to be, they said He was a deceiver - man possessed himself who was only able to cast out demons because He Himself was possessed by the ruler of demons.

Now, Christ told them that they weren't blaspheming Him when they said these things, for He was not casting out these demons by the might of His own arm; rather by His own admission, we learn that Christ was casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit. Try to understand: They honestly chose to believe that the Holy Spirit was the ruler of demons, rather than accept that Christ was who He claimed to be.

The same scene is recorded in Mark 3 and Luke 11.
<cont>

 

<cont>

Now again to the OCD button concerns:

Without a word of a lie, If I pushed the button a zillion times, and on the zillionth time I suddenly had a grave concern that I somehow had finally ruined it all by my horrible button pushing - such a fear would be immediately vanquished by the rock solid truth that I had by no means denied that Christ cast out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit in pushing the button - in other words, pushing a button that says I surrender my soul (which isn't even mine) is [1] ridiculous, and [2] has nothing to do with blaspheming the Holy Spirit - so I could hardly hold onto what amounts to an entirely irrational fear.

I simply couldn't look myself in the mirror if I was going to allow myself to believe something that entirely ignores what God's word actually says, in favor of nursing some irrational dread.

Listen: God didn't write the bible as a riddle for us to figure out. It is written very plainly, and the moment we start believing that it is actually true, it makes perfect sense, and we don't have to turn to far-out interpretations, or try to read between the lines hoping our best guess is solid enough to save us. The bible is clear, you just have to read it, and believe it.

Let me know if that helps.

 

Daniel,
Thank you again for responding. This does help. I know now that I need to sit down and read the bible. I need to know what His word is...not modern foklore. I know this rationally...but I also deal with my OCD which tells me to doubt. That maybe this isn't so. I have read through your prior posts and I will be rereading them multiple times in the future because it helps to talk to someone who knows the bible so well. May I contact you again in the days to come? I feel like I could benefit from speaking with you more. Would this be okay with you?
Thank you so much for your time Daniel.

 

Daniel,

I have been reading over your posts. But I have some questions I am hoping you will take the time to answer.

1) Being as I was so upset about having "pused the button" on the website, my mother and husband both went on and pushed it. They are so content in their faith and what they believe. They know that it was a joke and treat it as such. But now I think, am I anydifferent from Eve now? leading two people I love to something terrible? Just to maek me feel better and not be alone?
2) Have you studied other religions at all? The reason I ask is because if Jesus is the only way we are getting God's salvation, which I have believed, what about Jewish people who don't believe in Him? All the other religions who worship God but don't recognize Jesus as the savior? What are they basing their houghts on? The Old Testement?

P.S. I just got a copy of the bible you recommended. All I had before was a student bible so mabye a more literal translation will help. I will start with an hour a day. My mother has agreed to take this "educational" journey with me. She suggested that this might have happened to lead us both closer to Him. (even though we were both already believers)
3) Does scripture say that He might do something like this?

 

Anon,

Eve was deceived by Satan, but Adam was not deceived. That is one of the reason why scripture forbids women from being pastors - because Eve (unlike Adam) was deceived in the matter of sin. Adam was not tricked into sin as Eve was, but saw Eve sin, and became bold enough to sin himself.

So even if you had managed to "trick" your husband and mother into sinning, you would not actually be imitating Eve, for she tricked no one, but was herself tricked.

I know the scriptures, and because I do, I am confident that you haven't led your husband or mother to do something terrible. However, like Eve, you too have been deceived. In your case, you are convinced (contrary to both reason and scripture) that a person is [1] able to sell their souls, and [2] that you can do so by clicking on a webpage.

Since you cannot sell your soul, clicking on the webpage does nothing. That's the end of that for the rational mind at least. Anything beyond that is called an irrational fear because it is obvious and evident that the thing one is afraid of cannot be true.

Onto your second point. Jewish people who reject the Messiah are twice blind, but no more damned for it than other people who reject Christ. Other religions that accept God, but reject Christ are likewise blind and damned on that account. If God testifies to who He is, and what a man must do to be reconciled to Him, and men throw that in the garbage because they prefer to try and reconcile themselves to God through some other means - these are not going to please God for all their innovation and invention - they will simply earn His wrath all the more.

On your third point, there are several places in scripture where God's work in us is alluded to, but not described in a,"God works like this" format. We have the imagery of the potter who takes the spoiled vessel, and immediately turns it into something new that he can still use. We have the statement that all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purpose. We know that God works in us to will and to do His good pleasure, and that God has set good works before us the we should walk in them - all of these, coupled to many other similar sentiments, paint a grand picture of God being active in our lives daily.

Thus if this drives you closer to God and to your mother, I would say that this could not happen except that God's hand was in it.

 

Just a quick question for you since you seem to know quite a bit about the subject... say, for argument's sake, that someone did "sell" their soul to the Devil. Many years later when they have come to the realization that their "deal" was probably not such a hot idea, what would that person have to do in order to, basically, restore themselves? I've been wanting to discuss this matter with a priest, as I am Roman Catholic, but also don't want to come across as someone who has recently escaped a mental institution. I'm assuming the answer to this will be to repent, but I'd like your personal opinion, if possible. Great article, by the way. Thanks!

 

Yes it is possible to sell your soul or the scriptures wouldn't say you could gain the world, if you do it. Jesus paid a price for us, but the scripture doesn't say who the price was paid to, since God does not have to answer to anybody. Fortunately, the devil does. He has to answer to God. Your soul comprises of your Mind, Will and emotions. Once these were submitted to God through Jesus and being
A born again,blood washed spirit filled believer, it is then impossible to sell your soul to the devil. God will not share his glory with another-and definetly not the devil, since as you know he was defeated on calvary.

 

In response to the first sentence of the most recent anonymous comment,

The verse you refer to, Matthew 16:26 reads this way: For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

Taken out of context, it may sound like our Lord is speaking of our souls as though they can be bought and sold, but when we read the snippet in context we see that our Lord is not discussing the sale of souls, but rather the cost of discipleship.

In the context, Peter had just declared that Jesus was the Christ, and immediately after this declaration our Lord began to teach that as the Christ He would have to go to Jerusalem and suffer and be put to death there. Peter began to gainsay the Lord, and the Lord rebuked Him, with the words, "you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s."

That is the preceding context that introduces Christ's teaching on the cost of discipleship. The verse in its immediate context reads:

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. Matthew 16:24-27 [NASB]

When Christ asks this question, he is talking bout which has the greater profit, focusing on this life, and losing the next, or focusing on the next life in forfeiture of this one? The cost of discipleship is laid plain here: to be a Christian you do not sew Christ as a patch into your existing life, and carry on living as you have, but now with "added Christ". To be a Christian that old life must end in order that Christ be sewn into the fabric of a new life.

Do you see then that Christ is not talking about selling your soul to anyone, but rather is talking about how each one of us who embraces this life to the exclusion of Christ, has forfeited the very thing we are clinging to? The lesson is not in selling your soul, but rather in placing more value on this life, which will end, than on a life without end. The lesson is on where you place your treasure, and the consequences of that.

There is nothing in this passage to suggest that one can sell one's soul for temporary profit. The notion is that to invest in this life, is to forfeit this life. The purpose of this life is to give you an opportunity to come to Christ, everyone who fails to do so forfeits the life they could have had, they exchange it for this temporal life.

In other words, the cost of discipleship may seem very high, in that it means giving up this life - but it is in fact a "no brainer". To borrow from a thought from The Who, I call that a bargain -the best you'll ever have.

You may well have understood this already, but some of the readers here may not have, so I added this comment for clarity.

 

Some of your points were interesting., but I think you are wrong aboit everyone going to hell. In the bible it says many times, forgive and you will be forgiven,. Also the robber dieing on the cross got forgiven. Finallu the bible on the last day says you will.be judged. If good has no power over bad, then what is being judged?

 

Issac,

I appreciate your input. I think you misunderstand me when you quote me as saying that everyone goes to hell. What I teach is what the scriptures say, that everyone who has committed a sin is condemned on account of that sin - whether it be rape or murder, or simply telling a lie or lusting after another person or thing.

The argument follows then, that even if selling your soul to the devil was possible (it isn't), doing so would not add anything to your "already condemned because you are a sinner" status.

In other words, a person doesn't have to wonder whether or not they are good enough to go to heaven - because if they have ever sinned, even once, they demonstrate that they are not good enough to go to heaven. Jesus Himself says as much in John 3:36, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Notice the word abides? It means, "remains" or "dwells". Jesus isn't saying that you will inherit the wrath of God by disobeying the Son, He is saying that the wrath of God which is already upon you will remain upon you if you do not obey the Son.

Jesus saves us from the condemnation we are already under, and not from a possible condemnation we might receive later on.

Looking at the passage you refer to (Matthew 6:14) It might sound like God saves people who forgive others who tresspass against them: "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you." but these words were not being spoken to rebels, but rather to the followers of Christ. They were followed with the a reciprocating thought which qualifies/completes the first thought (verse 15): "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. "

It wasn't that Jesus was saying there was another way to be saved from God's wrath: ie. by forgiving others their transgressions against you. Rather Christ has just finished teaching them how to pray, and included in that lesson was an appeal to God for the forgiveness of our own sins, as we forgive others their sins against us.

When Christ focuses on the thought that you must forgive others, if you expect to be forgiven by God, He is introducing the concept of genuine worship as opposed to hypocritical worship.

Follow the flow of His teaching: In verses 14-15 He shows that the person who expects God to forgive him, while himself refusing to forgive others, will not be forgiven by God.

In verses 16-18, the person who fasts in order to impress men, will receive no reward from God.

In verses 19-21, the person who treasures the things in this world and of this life above God, will lose all these treasures upon his death, and not gain God.

In verses 22-23, the person who pursues darkness will not find light. Verses 24 expands the thought, the person who pursues the things in this world, cannot pursue God - the two pursuits are incompatible.

<cont>

 

<cont>

In fact, that is the heart of this ongoing lesson - the incompatibility of serving God and serving self.

The man who serves himself will not forgive, or do anything that doesnt' in some way serve his own interest.


The lesson then is not you can get to heaven by forgiving people, rather it is you cannot get to heaven if you are a hypocrit - confessing one thing with your mouth, but living a life that denies the very thing you confess.

The person who forgives others because he believes that doing so will purchase heaven for him, is acting in his own interests, and not God's interest. He is a hypocrite, a person whose external behavior (righteousness) does not mirror the internal motivation behind his seemingly righteousness, which is self preservation, or said another way, :selfishness".

To put the thought in a nutshell, you can't buy your way into a better life using the currency of your own selfishness - no matter how righteous that might look on the outside. Our Lord described this kind of thinking as cleaning the outside of the cup, and leaving the inside dirty.

The judgment seat of Christ is where guilty sinners will receive their sentence. The book of life will be consulted, and everyone whose name is not written in it will receive the judgment against their sins - hell. Those whose names are written in the book of life - they will not receive this judgment, but will enter into the wedding feast of the lamb, and thereafter will inherit a new earth under new heavens. They will receive rewards in keeping with the life that they lived in Christ, but they will not receive condemnation - as Christ bore all their condemnation already.

The judgment then is not the taking of our good deeds and weighing them against our bad deeds, for scriptures teach that every last person's personal good deeds, there personal "righteousnesses" are as unclean rags to God (c.f. Isaiah 64:6), such that if God were to weigh our good against our bad, he would take everything that we imagine was "good" (all our personal righteousnesses) and put them on the "bad" pile, leaving nothing "good" and everything "bad". Such a judgment demonstrates that the scripture is true when it says that there is none who are righteous, no not even one (c.f. Romans 3:10-12).

The judgment is not between our good deeds and our bad, it is the pronouncement of universal guilt and universal condemnation - a pronouncement that Christ will have saved His own from. We who are in Christ will not pass into this judgment again, for we were in Christ when this judgment was poured out on Him on Calvary - not the crucifying of His flesh, but the receiving of God's wrath against sin.

Let me know if that answers your thougths, or simply provokes more. I am happy to explain these things if they are unclear.

I am going to write a post on repentance today. That might cast some light on this.

 

Hey Daniel, thank you for all you do on here. This question is off topic so if I need to ask it somehwere else please let me know.

I wanted to ask you about Roman Catholocism. I became a Christian when I was in 2nd grade. I am a Southern Baptist from Texas, so growing up I really did not know anything about Catholic beliefs, until a year ago, when I was 26 years old, and I started reading about some of it online.

As I started reading about it I really found myself suprised by some of their beliefs. The thing I struggle with most is their concepts of "Mortal" and "Venial" sin, as well as the belief that you must confess your "mortal" sins to a priest or you go to hell when you die.

This has created many months of stress and worry for me, because there are more than likely some pretty bad things I have done even after becoming a Christian that they would consider "mortal" sins. Since then I have prayed and begged God to forgive me. It's just hard because accoring to Catholics they say you have to go to the priest and confess to him, then do pennance, etc. There are verses they use to back these claims up of course.

They use 1 John 5:16-17 to support the "mortal" sin concept. It says 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

They also use John 20: 22-23 to claim that the power to forgive sins has been passed down from the apostles to the current priests today. That verse says When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

If you could help clear some of this up for me I would really appreciate it. I have a hard time really even know what the mortal sins are to make certain that I do not commit those sins. Many Catholics say a good rule of thumb is that breaking any of the ten commandments would be considered "mortal", but it seems like that covers quite a number of different sins.

I have read alot of Catholic websites that say "serious" sins like murder, adultery, stealing something big, using birth control would all be considered to be "mortal" sin. Things like telling small lies or stealing something like a piece of gum are not very serious sin so they are not required to be confessed to a priest. According to Catholics, if you die with venial sins on your soul you can be purged of that sin in purgatory, but if you die with unconfessed moral sins you go straight to hell.

Can you please help me make sense of this? Like I said, I was raised Baptist and was taught that no matter what terrible sins you committ in your life, if you are truely sorry and repentant then God will forgive you. I was never taught that you had to go tell a priest. In my past I have done terrible things like adultery against my wife and viewed pornography. Do I need to confess this to a priest and become a Roman Catholic to recieve God's forgiveness? I am very very sorry for my past sins and I just want to be forgiven by God.

Please help!

 

Anon,

It would probably be helpful to simply email me directly, as posting an answer here may well produce a rash of off-topic comments.

My email is on the blog's home page.

 

Hi there I need to ask you a couple questions if you have time for them.

Firstly I am real worried about having to commited selling the soul to the devil and the unforgivable sin.
I want to be a Christian but am not sure of all the steps to becoming a christian. I have a Bible and read it alot. Im just so afraid of commiting and unforgivable sin or selling the soul to the devil. Are you sure you can be forgiven for it and also sure it is Gods soul not yours.?

Thanks

 

Anon

You cannot sell your soul because it isn’t yours to sell, it belongs to God. You can however be deceived by demons into thinking that there is no hope for you because you’re a bad person who has done bad things. The bible tells us that if you are a sinner - then you are qualified to receive forgiveness for your sins by trusting that God will forgive you because you believe that if you give up this life of rebelling against Gods rule, and instead cry out to God to be reconciled again to HIm and to His rule through Christ, that you will be saved.

It isn’t what you say, it is whether you truly mean it. If you truly accept God as your God, and believe your sins are forgiven in Christ - you will be saved if you call upon God in prayer with this in your heart.

Again - it isn’t what you say, it is whether or not you trust God to save you inspire of your sin.

The unforgivable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to deny that the Spirit of God was in Christ performing the miraculous in first century Palestine - and to attribute those miracles to demons. That is what it meant to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It mean that you rejected Jesus because you thought he was possessed by demons.

It wasn’t some fleeting thought either - you have to be utterly convinced of it - so convinced that you would refuse to consider Jesus as the Christ.

I hope that helps.

And yes, I am sure that God will forgive your sins, and that the soul you are using belongs to God.

 

So were goin to hell anyways?

 

Demon420 - that's right. Apart from repentance and faith, everyone is damned. That's what salvation means - being saved from God's wrath which every one of us has earned by rejecting Gid's rule. Those who call upon the name of the Lord however will be saved.

 

So what do i do to get saved?

 

I wrote a blog post about how to get saved - you can find it here.

 

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 

Emperor, a person is saved when they are reconciled to God in and through Jesus Christ. This reconciliation happens when a sinner admits his or her guilt before God and prayerfully asks God to forgive the sinner for his lifelong rebellion against God's rule, and in the same moment acknowledges and agrees with God's right to rule over His creation (the sinner) as He sees fit. The sinner trusts that God will forgive his or her rebellion on the basis that Christ satisfied God's wrath of God which was previously directed at the sinner alone, but through faith has been borne by Christ, who Himself came to earth to suffer the penalty for sin on behalf of those sinners who trust God for their salvation, rather than attempt to appease God through subsequent, inconsistent, and ultimately flawed attempts to 'do good' in order to 'cancel out' previous sins (which can never be blotted out by anything short of the sinners death). When a sinner turns to God sincerely in this way - trusting God to save Him, he will be saved by Christ through that same faith.

 

I would add - it doesn't depend on the words you pray, it depends upon whether or not you're and truly surrendering to God in faith or not. God is not fooled by even the most perfect prayer - but even the most messed up prayer, can't obscure a genuinely penitent and faith filled heart.

 

I have these thoughts all the time and they are affecting my life and my prayers please help

 

I have these thoughts all the time and they are affecting my life and my prayers please help

 

Juan,

Sorry that it has taken me so long to reply. I had some personal matters to settle at home, and I wasn't able to address this properly until those matters/obligations were answered.

I have given many pages worth of advice in the comments above, it may be that reading through the comments above will help?

What I can say, given the brevity of your request, is that I will do what I can to help. I will pray for you, but your request otherwise is a little ambiguous - I am assuming that you're suffering from OCD as it relates to the notion of selling your soul to the devil, etc., but that isn't the sort of thing I would want to assume.

You can email me (link can be found on bottom of left hand margin, under the header: EMAIL ME) if there is something specific, or if that doesn't work, you can share some of what you're experiencing here in the comments, and I will do what I can to shed some light on that. Ultimately, I have no answers of my own, but I do the scriptures, and can at the very least correct those misunderstandings about the nature of God and the devil that can really empower this sort of stuff.

Let me know how I can help.

 

I can't find the email address

 

It is a link - search on page for the word email - you'll find it

 

I emailed you

 

Juan,

I haven't received any email from you?

You sure you're clicking on the link in the left menu?

 

I'll just ask here, I think bad thoughts against the holy spirit and god, they were on accident at first but then I started to think them on purpose, have I eternally sinned

 

Juan,

The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that the scriptures speaks of as the unforgivable sin, happens when you deny that the miraculous signs performed by Christ were divine in origin.

That is, if you believe that Christ cast out demons by some demonic power - there is no forgiveness for you if you die while holding to that (very wrong) belief.

The reason you won't be forgive is because if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, your sins will be forgiven you - even blasphemy - but if you believe that Jesus cast out demons - not because He was the Christ, but rather because of some demonic powers - then you cannot be forgiven, because so long as you hold to a lie like that, you cannot become a Christian and be forgiven.

In other words, what makes that sin unforgivable isn't the fact that you've committed it (if you have), what makes it unforgivable is if you believe that - you won't come to Christ for salvation. That particular sin is grievous because the one who believes it makes it impossible for himself to find forgiveness - because he has rejected the only one who can give him that forgiveness.

That is why that particular sin is an eternal sin - God states elsewhere that all manner of blasphemies will be forgiven - yet in order to be receive forgiveness for all manner of blasphemies, you must actually come to Christ. If the sins you have committed convince you that Jesus isn't the Christ, you won't come, and therefore won't be forgiven - not because the sin cannot be forgiven, but because if you're deceived by it, you won't come for forgiveness.

I hope that makes sense.

It isn't that blasphemy that is unforgivable, it is a very specific blasphemy that puts you in a position whereby you can't be saved - and that blasphemy is any blasphemy that convinces you that Jesus is not the Christ. If you don't believe that, you can't be saved, and if you're not saved, you cannot be forgiven.

I hope that helps.

 

Thank you, thank you so much, I hope god blesses your life, when i read that my spirit and the holy spirit were filled with joy, thank you

 

Daniel how do I have faith in god

 

Juan,

The desire every one of us has to rule our own lives will cause every last one of us to reject the notion of obeying God - even if we know and believe that rejecting God's rule means eternal condemnation in hell.

That is the state we find ourselves in - and we cannot change this disposition through fear of the consequences. The bible says that each one of us is enslaved like this - incapable of wanting God enough to overcome this.

This is what the bible talks about when it speaks of the sinfulness of sin. It is saying that sin is not simple rebellion and eternal treason - it is an inescapable problem - something you cannot rescue yourself from. You won't be able to want God in your life - even to save it.

That's why you need to be saved by someone else - Jesus. He came to earth to be the Ark that would carry as many as will come to Him through death and into life by uniting them to a new life (His own) a life that can obey the will of God.

You get that by simply asking for it in earnest. God is no liar - he said that as many as call upon His name shall be saved, and that means that as many as do, will be saved.

There is no magic to it - you only have to ask to be reconciled back into the only relationship a creature may have with his Creator - one where you humble yourself to the point of agreeing that God has the right to command your obedience, and you honestly and freely offer it to God as is the due of every creature, trusting that God will not reject you if you do - but rather desires this very thing from you.

You can't "do it wrong" - unless you are lying in your heart about obeying, or don't believe God will keep His word.

Note: Jesus came to save sinners - that's all the qualification you need. You can't clean yourself up for this - you either ask God in earnest and get saved, or you don't.

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you Daniel

 

I just want to say thank for you for this article. It has helped me with my fears and my doubts and my ocd. This made me open my eyes and show me that I am not my own and no one is in a state of no return during life. I was afraid that I sold it last summer because of a weird thought that came in my head. Thank you, I can now continue my walk with god knowing he and only he controls where I go in the end.

 

Hey Daniel i dont know if you will see this but i hope you do.

I have had this fear for a while and it just resurfaced it happened two summers ago when I was stressed and worried about a surgery because I heard you could still be awake during surgery and feel everything. One night I was praying for god to protect me and that I would do anything to be protected and then I had this thought which said “even sell your soul” then I said “I would never do that” and I’m not completely sure what I said it could have been “I would rather have the worst day of my life then sell my soul” or it could have been about 5 minutes later and I said “I would rather have the worst day of my life then be awake during the surgery”. Then the next day was horrible because I had plans to go to a party but it rained so bad that I could not go and then after my mom and dad ordered pizza to make me feel better but then the pizza man got into a crash on the way to our house. I know what you are think hey that is not that bad and of course because When I was super worried I had a thought “all that happened and you lost your possibility to go to heaven that’s why it’s the worst day of your life” .

Thats why im worried

 

GuyWithTheMind - sorry for late reply.

You’re soul is safe. 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.


Do you see from God’s word who keeps you saved? God Himself keeps you blameless, it doesn’t say sinless, because we all sin, it says blameless - because Christ has taken the penalty for our sin so that we are not going to suffer that penalty (hell). There will be no blame against us on the day of judgement. The Bible says this to us so that we can be assured of it - Surely God will do that. He is the one who keeps us saved. If it were us keeping ourselves saved we would all fail.

On the day of Passover, the angel of death did not visit any residence where the blood of the lamb was found over the door. The angel didn’t peek inside to see if those under the blood were worthy of the salvation they were receiving. He saw the blood and passed over that house. It was not the righteousness of the residents that saved them, it was the blood - the spent life of - the lamb. So too, all who are in Christ through repentance and faith, are secure in their salvation- not because they are sinless, but because it is Christ’s finished work which saves them.

 

This comment has been removed by the author.

 

Thanks for this work.

I had bad OCD as a kid. I saw a lot of movies where people ‘sell their souls’. The movies freaked me out giving me intrusive thoughts like ‘If I don’t read this paragraph 3 times then I will go to hell’.

In 2011, I was 11 years old. I was inside a bus station, saw this map, and I had this intrusive thought: “I promise Satan that if I don’t read this location in 3 minutes he can have my soul”. I got on my bus, having seen 'Drag me to hell’, I thought if I didn’t verbally act on my thought, I would be damned. I started whispering thinking I was talking to Satan, stating that he could have my soul if I didn’t read some word on the map in the bus station by the time I died, shaking hands with the air. If I wasn’t, I probably looked possessed.

In only 3 hours after I got back to the station, a construction project emerged where the map was, and the map was gone. I felt infinitely desperate with no way out, I never sought biblical answers thinking they would tell me there is no hope. I was hoping it was all an astronomical coincidence.

The first time I tried saying “I am an atheist”, was in 2015. My (little) faith was being tested in school, I thought what do I have to lose?

This year, 2019, I thought about the incident for a bit. As an atheist I was bothered by the chance, I tried to cope by convincing myself it was all coincidence, then I stopped going to lectures and out of bed. After looking up the evidence for resurrection, trying to become atheist didn't work as a cope anymore.

I finally brought myself to google the question, “can you sell your soul”, and found a lot of cringe internet articles, but to my surprise everything that cited biblical sources said you cannot. I thought maybe they left the part where you can sell your soul out of the bible? After what I have experienced, it seems just too good to be true to just have the gift of salvation by Christ.

Jesus resurrected from the dead, I should trust his words as the truth. But my anxiety causes me to think, is the Bible wrong and I somehow dealt with a Pagan Satan? It's very, very odd how so many people online worry they've sold their souls.

The more I read the Bible, the more my fears go down. But reading stuff like Proverbs 16:4, where even the wicked serve God in the end, I get thoughts like, “God knows I am going to hell but doesn't want me to know as he would rather have me do his will.”

For me the leap of faith believing in Christ as savior is easy, but accepting that Christ can save me after something that seemed like a deal with Satan is absurdly hard.

If there is any 'good’ from this incident (meaning I can still be saved):

After what I experienced, expecting hell, I'm like, “I need Jesus TODAY, not tomorrow, eternity cannot wait”. It's now absurdly easy for me to avoid sinful temptation after living for years like, 'Oh God, what I wouldn't do for another chance?’ And now I found out I can just have salvation through Christ?

People wonder how they have original sin in debates of apologetics, and for me I think that if I can somehow give myself to Satan verbally, then every time I sin I do the same.

This incident may have strained my relationship with God and helped me go to atheism for a few years, but it recoiled and made me open the Bible and start reading it. Now I attend church, and plan to take classes in theology in addition to my biology major.

After what I experienced, trying to convince myself that Satan lies about being able to own souls is so hard - it feels like I am lying to myself out of desperation. I would like to think this incident is good in that it ultimately brought me to a committed worship of God in the end, but my obsessive thoughts ask me otherwise.

I like to hope from your article, that even if something foul happened in 2011, it's still just a lie to try to separate me from God. No other articles explain why Satan would try to make you think he has your soul - which helps put things in perspective - they just explain that he cannot.

 

Phil,

Satan is no doubt pleased that (ignorant) people believe he can buy their soul. You cannot give your soul to anyone because it isn’t yours to give. The Bible tells us that God alone owns it. What happened in 2011 was that you were deceived by a lie - a lie that you believed because you were misinformed. The more you become familiar with the truth (I.e.the Bible) the less shrift you’ll have for lies such as this.

 

Sorry to bother you again:

One of your points in this article is that one cannot sell their soul because God owns all creatures. So Satan cannot "purchase" your soul.

But if Satan forces someone to take the mark of the beast in the time of Revelation, then that person essentially has a irremovable seal of damnation. Likewise, someone who is born again has the seal of the Holy Spirit (unless you talk to someone who believes one can lose their salvation).

So while Satan can't "purchase" your soul, do you think its possible (before the tribulation period) that someone could want to repent, but have an irremovable seal of damnation on them? I am just reading verses like Mathew 18:18 and the legalistic language is giving my OCD the chills.

(Also: for someone who receives the mark of the beast, do you think its possible for them to even want to repent? If the Holy Spirit is required for someone to feel convicted, then I almost guess it could not dwell in someone with the mark, and that person would be unable to want Christ).

Thanks.

 

I don’t think anyone can repent apart from God granting their repentance. The Bible describes our fallen estate as being dead in trespasses/sin. We’re condemned already, and have no desire in ourselves to submit ourselves in repentance to God. The repentance that leads to life is granted by God even as the faith that saves is likewise granted by God. This leaves no room for boasting.

Matthew 18 is about church discipline. When someone claiming to be a Christian refuses to repent of something they know to be sinful, they give no lasting evidence of a genuine conversion- and are put out of the church to indicate that the church doesn’t see any evidence that they are real Christians.

It is all guess work trying to know exactly what the mark of the beast will be, but it certainly will involve a voluntary wholesale rejection of Christianity similar to Ancient Rome where Christians refusing to worship Ceasar, could have all their property confiscated and be put to death for not being willing to abandon their faith.

Anyone at any time who desires to truly repent does so only by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit - and then and only then - regardless of all this clutter- can they repent. No one has the ability to come to Christ unless and until God Himself intentionally draws him to Christ in and through the repentance and faith God supplies in the act of salvation.