Brevity is good.

The Spirit moved the tears from my heart to my eyes in reading this. I needed this. Thank you.

I am an impatient woman, and I want Him to change me now. I must wait on Him and trust.

I'm out of words. Except for thank you.

You've driven me to much-needed prayer with this.

 

Prayer is always good.

We are, all of us, impatient. That is why Hebrews 6:3 is so profoundly helpful: and this we will do if God permits.

What will we do? What is it that "we" will do that only -if- God permits??

Answer: become mature believers.

Wah??

That's what the text says.

huh?

That's what the text says.

We do not progress on to maturity unless/until God allows it, and we only progress as far as God allows it.

Faith is trusting that our sanctification is exactly where God would have it be, no more, and no less. It is not an excuse for sin by any means, but we must remember that God "perfects" us (makes us mature) through suffering. It isn't always physical suffering, but more often than not it is this one struggle: I want the flesh to be sanctified right now, I expect it to be sanctified right now - and secretly, I think God will reject me if it isn't sanctified right now. That is the core religious motivation of unbelief - it sincerely wants to be sanctified, but not because it trusts God, but rather because it does not trust God and wants to be certain that the deal is secure.

Oh, it is slippery as oil but it is there none the less - and I am speaking of my own heart and if what I find there is found in yours or any other then know that these things are common to us all - for in us no good thing dwells. The struggle of faith - the "good" fight, is trusting that God will really do it.

Doubt is what fuels my soul to pursue bridge building. Doubt drives me to sanctify myself because I am trying to make my call and election -sure- by works and not by faith. I try and build the house myself as fast as possible, because if I don't, I secretly believe that God may not do it.

I shine this light on my own struggles because I know that I am not alone in these things, but that they are common to all who hunger and thirst for righteousness. But the lesson is that we will be filled, and not that we fill ourselves. Patience is a fruit of the Spirit in that when the spirit shows us that God will provide and we trust that he will - we can hardly be impatient knowing that God will send what is needed the very moment it is needed. Can you imagine how silly it would have been had the fire fallen from the sky while Elijah was still pouring water on the sacrifice? God sends all things on time, every time.

I am rambling on now. So I will just shut up.

 

You have no idea (or maybe you do) how needed that rambling is.

I have no words to express all I'm going through internally on this. And you're right about it all.

not because it trusts God, but rather because it does not trust God and wants to be certain that the deal is secure.

I secretly believe that God may not do it.

Yes, to my shame, yes. Lord, help my unbelief. I am so afraid sometimes because of my own wretchedness and how it doesn't just "go away" when I pray that He deliver me from it. When I envision myself holding on to Him as I pray, clutching with my fingers onto His robe, and clinging on for dear life begging Him that He won't abandon me to myself.

And then thoughts return to me and I am ... well, despairing. For my sinfulness. Much of which I find linked to the current situation in which my "suffering" is found. But the blame for my thoughts is only myself. I can blame no one but myself for my dark heart and thoughts.

The encouragement in knowing that God will complete His good work in me in His own time is received with gratitude.

And you're right about the secret thoughts - because I know my unworthiness, I know my lack, I know my sin and my shame. I beg His forgiveness, and I don't want them to return. It's nothing I do in action per se, but the darkness of the heart is akin to the actual act, as Jesus noted. And I hate it.

I believe the Lord is breaking me - slowly - and in this, I have hope. Because I trust His hand and I don't trust my own.

 

Susan, I am far more concerned over a Christian who does not have this struggle, than one who does.

Faith comes at the -expense- of the flesh and its wiles. It is a stumbling block to say this is the work of God - believe on Him whom God has sent. We go, "huh?" - but that is the only answer. We have our hearts cleansed by faith, our walk is by faith, all things come by accepting that God has done it all already.


Walter Marshall was a puritan minister who wrote a book called "the Gospel Mystery of Sanctification." It is available online at the linked address, and although it is not the easiest read in the world, it may be something you might appreciate.

Let me know.

Dan
<><

 

When I saw another comment from you I was a bit concerned - thinking I'm going to need another box of tissues.

The link is edifying and presents the information in a way I can grasp. At least so far in the first two chapters. Haven't read the rest yet. I'm grateful that it's available on-line for immediate (and affordable) reading.

I appreciate Marshall's title as well; sanctification is a mysterious reality. It is sometimes frighteningly painful - and yet more frightening not to go through it at all.

I hadn't really considered it sanctification, due to my dwelling on the wretchedness of my thoughts and why they recur, and yet.. there's something else going on here. Because I can't see where the Lord's going with this, perhaps I failed to keep my eyes on Him and looked instead to the water where I'm sinking.

I do appreciate your providing that link.

No need to stone Mark - yet.
:-)

 

if there is no need to stone Mark, that means that you are definitely "crashing". . . .


I want you to come out of this without a crash, then I can stone Mark good and proper. ;^)

 

Daniel,
I appreciate this post a lot. I appreciate your definition of faith. That is precisely how I see it. It is good to rest in the tetellesti of Christ.

Susan,
I prayed for you on my walk this morning. I want you to know that your transparency elicited prayer through the Spirit. God bless you.

 

Thank you, Rose.

What is telellesti?

 

Apart from the quotation from Phillipians at the end, this is good stuff.

 

It is the Greek word that would be used if one's debt to society - a criminal's - were paid. "Paid in full" is a way it could be stated, I think. It is the cry of Christ from the cross when He died: "It is finished."

 

"It is finished!"

(I forgot the exclamation point)

It means a lot to me.

 

Rose,

Interesting. Thank you.

I see in the gospels the only place where "It is finished:" appears is in the book of John (19:30), and there the word is τελέω
teleō
From G5056; to end, that is, complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt): - accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.

I wonder how the word has since morphed to telellesti?

Just FYI, I performed a google search prior to asking you and had difficulty finding the answer, although I saw references to it, no explanations.

Thanks again for your prayers this morning.

 

If Susan and Daniel want to stone me then I'm worried about what Rose and Matthew might want to do... I can't even bring myself to imagine that.

Tough crowd here.

 

Susan, tetelestai is just an inflected form of teleo. Tetelestai is the perfect passive indicative third person singular form of the verb "teleo", and it appears in John 19:28 as well as 19:30 in exactly the same tense.

 

Mark, we aren't going to stone you "to death" that would be cruel. No, we are just going to stone you a little, maybe just to you cry. ;-)

 

yikes!

 

Daniel,
All that and you spelled it right, too! ;~)

 

Thanks, Daniel.

Mark, I'm just teasin'. I didn't get the joke in the first place, but it sounded like too much fun not to play along. You know I could never stone you; I appreciate your heart toward me as a brother.

I've been praying and thinking quite a bit since Friday night. I'm beginning to see that sanctification is not unlike repentance in that they are both things that the Lord must do or grant - in His time. To His glory and pleasure.

I had recently been wondering why we are told to repent in Scripture if it is something the Lord grants. When I asked a Bible study teacher at church last Sunday this question, he replied that it is like unto the gospel message. We are told to preach it, but it is the Spirit who uses it as He will to save whom He will.

So I continue to pray for the Lord's hand on me - to deliver me from thoughts that plague me. They are not separate from the "suffering" of my situation in which I pray God sanctifies me. I suppose I can only pray and cry and plead and am at His mercy. I wish I knew why it takes so long - if His hand will change me at all.

Daniel, I'm reading the Gospel Mystery of Sanctification very slowly. I started again in chapter one and am trying to read a chapter a day. (Toddler underfoot slows things down.) I want to absorb it well, not read over it quickly. There's a lot to it.

Friday night, my daughter and I were home, and I was sitting at the computer reading when she told one of her stuffed animals that she was going to sing it a song. She began, "Father, let us believe..." I have no idea where this came from in her. She continued for a few seconds, then tricycled around the house singing it before disappearing into another mode of play. Her dad wasn't even home, and she calls him Daddy. When we pray, we haven't said Father to her; we say God. So it was really a bizarre moment. (And sweet - because she has problems with pronunciation, and it came out as "Fada - wet us beweev.") Later in the evening, she did the same thing again, only it was something about Father, make us Truth or something like that. Again, I stopped what I was doing and just watched her. She wasn't looking at me, but her toys. I'm not sure what the verb was in the second one, but Fada and Twoot (truth) were in there.

 

Susan, in the OT if a man prophesied and what he prophesied did not come true, that identified him as a false prophet, and the instruction to stone such a one to death is the heart of the joke. Mark "prophesied" that you would indeed crash, and I said that if you don't crash we will have to stone Mark for asserting a thing that wasn't certain.

When my youngest daughter (she's four) plays with, well, ... toothbrushes (she pretends they are people for some reason?), they always talk like the people in the princess videos we rent for the girls (they love anything with princesses in them), which is to say that although my own children hear me refer to our heavenly father as such, they also speak in princess language when playing with toothbrushes - "oh father, whatever will we do?" My own kids call me Dad, but when the girls play the father is always referred to as "father" for some reason. I wonder if my own children think of me as "dad" and keep that separate from every pretend "dad" they make up for their games - since it seems pretend dads are never called daddy, but always "father" - at least in my house, and possibly because that's the way they do it in kids shows?

That's what I think of when I hear about your little one. It sounds like my own children.