Thanks Dan, this is very good.

 

The church is in shallow water; 100 miles wide and 1/4 inch deep theology, which could be part of the problem.

The theology of needing healing and happiness, when what we need is repentance and holiness, (being set apart).

This was very good. Amen to your prayer.

 

I have seen this in our own church as well, and it distresses me a bit. I can't focus on it, because it strikes me as very self-centered and prideful. Every time I encounter it, I try to remember to pray for the individual/s in which I see/hear it.

I've even heard "Christ set us free from all that," when I've mentioned things learned in books (theology) other than the Bible. I guess they mean study of anything outside of Scripture.

I suppose there are many man-centered reasons one could say "Jesus set us free from [fill in the blank]." I just have to turn my heart and head away from that, pray for the individual, and set my eyes back squarely to the Lord.

 

I try and speak the truth in love when I encounter this - but I have yet to have anyone say, "Hey - you're right!" ;-0

 

But if we speak the truth in love, then the Lord is pleased.

Speaking can be difficult at times for me. Other times I'm able to boldly speak. But the consequences, and repercussions, are hard to deal with.

 

Great stuff...did you read my recent post "minimum wage"?...similar idea...it is indeed epidemic, and you can often tell when you start asking or hearing questions like "gross or net?", or "how much should I read?", or "is a Christian allowed to do this or that?", etc., etc...

 

JD - I don't recall if I have read that post or not, but yeah, its pretty common now, and those are all typical indicators.

 

Sometimes I wonder if sin isn't the only thing TO focus on for the professing Christian who isn't seeking to deny themselves for the Lord. I know I do it. When I wander from God, the first thing that pops into my head to make me feel better about where I am is "how well do I keep the law?" and everything related thereto.

This was very well-put. Especially "in order to be sure that they aren't wasting too much effort on their God - effort that they can put into themselves - which is their very desire, and the reason they pursue a minimalist version of Christianity."

 

May God raise up a standard against this.

I think these are wise words.

I have also heard it noted along the lines of "Christ set us free from ..xyz" - that there is no standard in the New Testament given for "how to have church." When it was mentioned, the person talking was lamenting that we shouldn't necessarily all have to get together to hear "one man's" (a preacher) learning from the week, but instead could all get together to share what the Lord showed each one of us that past week.

Although I thought about it and considered that the person talking may have been right - there isn't just "one way" to "have church" - it was troubling to me that the same thought was used to somewhat denigrate the coming together of the saints to worship, praise, sing, exalt and learn together the Word of God.

It's troubling indeed that it seems to be something common these days. I wonder if it has always been so. To justify man's thinking in pursuit of the wind rather than the Word.

 

In the book of revelation Christ tells John to write letters to the messengers of the seven churches.

The word of course is "angelos" in the Greek, from which we get the word "angel" - which is typically how it is translated - but the idea of Christ telling John to write letters to angels is a little silly. If Christ wants to tell an angel something, He needn't to use a human mediator to do so, and why would He? Hey John? Tell write letters to these angels for me, and let's hope these angels pass it along to the churches...

I don't like to dismiss things too quickly, but I will make an exception when it comes to the idea that these messengers were divine beings - they were singular people, and each church had one - a messenger - the guy who brings the God's message to the congregation - the senior pastor, etc.

It gets my feathers up when someone historical revisionist comes along contrary to scripture itself and (because they have been persuaded in ignorance that the whole idea of a single speaker is somehow "new" or worse, a man made addendum to proper orthopraxy that came about hundreds of years after Christ) - I say when someone who sorely suffers in their own ignorant revisionist persuasion presents there sadly inherited buffoonery as though it were a legitimate concern to be having - it just gets my zeal up.

Whether there is more than one way to "do church" one thing is certain - the idea of a single dedicated speaker, and overseer if you will, was so entirely in place during John's life time that we ought not to give it any more shrift that to point out what is so, and dismiss the rest.

These people need to read more bible, and adopt a more critical ear for every new thing they hear.

Sorry 'bout the rant.

 

Daniel,

I appreciate the rant, actually – because over time I’ve seen how these opinions expressed by individuals tend to allow behavior and lax attitudes rapidly run downhill.

What this individual (who is now leading his own “church” of sorts) expressed to me about how to “have church” was thought-provoking, but bothered me somehow, but I couldn’t put words as to exactly why. This individual also expressed concern about addressing the church we attend as “the house of God” (probably due to each believer being a temple for God, but I didn’t press the issue).

I appreciate your rant, because I have an internal rant going on every time I meet the few individuals in question (they tend to show up from time to time in our present church). They raise my ire a bit, and that’s when I have to refocus back on the Lord. One of these individuals never ceases after a Bible study to approach me to say, “You’re pretty smart, aren’t you?” or “You seem to like studying a lot” and “You know, some people may know Greek or Hebrew, but they don’t know Christ.”

Sorry about my own personal rant here, but it tends to get under my skin, and that’s why I noted that I have to just laugh it off, say a prayer for him on my way out the door, and refocus on the Lord.

 

"how to have church."

Acts 2:42 Has the Apostles doctrine as an essential part of discipleship. As well as fellowship, breaking bread, and prayer.
And though worship is indicated here, Jesus said very clearly the Father sought for people to worship Him in Spirit and truth.
Paul's epistles to Timothy, and Titus help a lot. As well as the rest of his letters.
Ephesians tells us to sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

And there's a great deal we can glean from the old testament.

For me to have a local church, and a fine pastor, who teaches the Word expositionally, is such a tremendous blessing and honor. I rejoice every Sunday when I go to church to worship our Lord, and hear His Word spoken in authority and love.

Good thoughts Susan. Very good thought on the messengers in Revelation Daniel.

Have a wonderful Lord's Day. He is risen!