H  O  M  E          
Theological, Doctrinal, and Spiritual Musing - and whatever other else is on my mind when I notice that I haven't posted in a while.
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Daniel of Doulogos Name:Daniel
Home: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
About Me: I used to believe that evolution was reasonable, that homosexuality was genetic, and that people became Christians because they couldn't deal with the 'reality' that this life was all there was. I used to believe, that if there was a heaven - I could get there by being good - and I used to think I was more or less a good person. I was wrong on all counts. One day I finally had my eyes opened and I saw that I was not going to go to heaven, but that I was certainly going to suffer the wrath of God for all my sin. I saw myself as a treasonous rebel at heart - I hated God for creating me just to send me to Hell - and I was wretched beyond my own comprehension. Into this spiritual vacuum Jesus Christ came and he opened my understanding - delivering me from God's wrath into God's grace. I was "saved" as an adult, and now my life is hid in Christ. I am by no means sinless, but by God's grace I am a repenting believer - a born again Christian.
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The Buzz

Daniel's posts are almost always pastoral and God centered. I appreciate and am challenged by them frequently. He has a great sense of humor as well.
- Marc Heinrich

His posts are either funny or challenging. He is very friendly and nice.
- Rose Cole

[He has] good posts, both the serious like this one, and the humorous like yesterday. [He is] the reason that I have restrained myself from making Canadian jokes in my posts.
- C-Train

This post contains nothing that is of any use to me. What were you thinking? Anyway, it's probably the best I've read all day.
- David Kjos

Daniel, nicely done and much more original than Frank the Turk.
- Jonathan Moorhead

There are some people who are smart, deep, or funny. There are not very many people that are all 3. Daniel is one of those people. His opinion, insight and humor have kept me coming back to his blog since I first visited earlier this year.
- Carla Rolfe
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Monday, July 17, 2006
Peer Review...
What's My Gifting...?
From time to time, though I am not as severe about is as Frank Turk, I do like to check out who is linking to me from time to time.

It was in such a pursuit that I came across a fun post on John Wendell's blog.

John is doing a series on Spiritual gifting, and in this part of that series - I would describe it more - but it is more fun if you just follow the link and go see it for yourselves.

But it got me to thinking - you know, about my own gifting.

A few years back, I took a spiritual gifting test that a pastor friend of mine had in a Bill Gothard seminar text he had received. Gothard believes that you only ever have one gift - and frankly I am not endorsing that idea by mentioning him - nor am I a "Gothardite" (Honey? How dare you leave this house without a turtleneck and scarf!!) - but I took the test anyway, and contrary to Bill's assertions, I found that, according to his "test" at least - my gifting was teaching and discernment.

Now, sometimes when we take such tests, we are not answering what we are, but what we aspire to be, and as fair as I try to be in answering such things - I do leave room for my own bias.

So I ask you gentle reader, what do you think Daniel's Spiritual gifting is? I will start you off by telling you up front, it isn't miracles or tongues (not that I know of at least).
posted by Daniel @ 11:31 AM  
  • At 12:22 PM, July 17, 2006, Blogger Frank Martens said…

    The gift of enduring eating bugs while biking!

    Actually, how would I know? I'd say you do have a good deal of discernment for sure.

    Also, growing up my parents listened to a lot of Gothard. Not that they took everything to heart. I personally don't agree with some of his "ideas". I think a lot of it is almost legalistic. But he does have some good things to say at the same time.

    Anyway, have a great one!

  • At 2:46 PM, July 17, 2006, Blogger Kim said…

    Well, I have never takn any "tests" to find out what my gift is. I have usually relied on what others have observed in me, and those things which I feel God has called me to.

    I was, however, told by a menteor long ago that if someone has a passion for learning, it is very likely that he has the gift of teaching.

    I would say that based on the content of your blog, the test results seem pretty accurate.

  • At 5:06 PM, July 17, 2006, Blogger jazzycat said…

    Since we agree on so many theological points, I would say discernment. You are also very good at presenting your thoughts through written word.

    I would say that discernment is extremely important in such a mass information and entertainment age where manipulation and brainwashing to achieve secular agendas is considered the PC thing to do.

    Therefore, I would encourage you to contiue to stand up for Biblical truth, as that could benefit and help babes in Christ from drinking some of the false teaching kool-aid that is being dispensed on the internet.


  • At 7:53 PM, July 17, 2006, Blogger Jonathan Moorhead said…

    Sorry Daniel, I don't think you have any spiritual gifts. Neither do I for that matter. Here I go on my wacky view of Total Cessation again. If I were pressed for what I think is biblical language, I would say you have the "desire" to teach others. Do I have to sit in the corner now?

  • At 2:15 AM, July 18, 2006, Blogger Bryan said…

    Snappy dressing.
    Those suspenders you wear when giving a bible study, along with your purple dress shirt makes it obvious.


  • At 7:55 AM, July 18, 2006, Blogger Daniel said…

    Jonathan, you don't have to sit in the corner. Your view (while unpopular, and in the general consensus, erroneous) is nevertheless in accord with the light you have been given.

    Just as water finds the lowest spots to pool - so our theology, for all our intellect, tends to "pool" according to the dictates of our "spiritual landscape."

    Many a genius has refused to accept the idea that he or she is in fact "smart" - but rather they prefer to assume (against all reason) that it is in fact everyone who is either stupid or lazy. So too, I suspect that your view agrees entirely with what you see around you and what you experience in yourself. That is, I presume that your view is regarded by yourself as not only biblical, but rational and agreeable.

    My only hope is that you assume the same for everyone else, and then answer the question as to why the rest of us think spiritual gifting is rational and agreeable (as opposed to only biblical).

    It is a fun exercise! (I hope!)

    On a personal note, I can say with certainty that I have absolutely no desire to teach whatsoever - but I -do- have a profound desire that people would know how to be Christians - and I experience the purest joys imaginable when someone's eyes open so that they can see the Lord more clearly.

    I have said it before, but it bears repeating, I believe that spiritual gifts are not magic - they're God's Spirit poured into us so that we are in tune with one or more aspects of God's character - is a Christian generous? God is generous, and that believer has received something of God's heart so that they are quickened according to God's will within them - and they share in his generosity. Are you merciful? It is God's mercy that you have been gifted with - you share God's own merciful heart. Are you a teacher? You share God's desire that men will know him.

    It is critical to note that these "desires" that I am speaking of are not the kind you come up with because you imagine that you are supposed to - and they are not the sort of natural talent that one has always possessed. That is, they do not come from our flesh, and they are not universally manifested to all believers.

    In my own experience, let me say this - before I knew the Lord I had no desire for men to know the Lord. Before I knew the Lord I had no interest in what the truth was, or that men should understand it. I was saved as an adult, so I can recall clearly, like night and day - the difference between who I was, and who I am.

    I think it is an error to think of spiritual gifts as magical, mystical, or ethereal. They are (IMO) the manifestation of God's Spirit in our life, a sharing of His own nature, such that when I desire a man should come to the Lord, it isn't my desire generated from within my understanding - it is God's desire translated to me through the Holy Spirit within me. I am concerned for any faith that doesn't produce (in some way) God's Spirit within.

    Now I must be candid - it is possible that I have noticed the same "lack" as you have - that is that too have noticed that there is no magical, mystical Christian phenomenon going on in anyone I know - and perhaps my reasoning above is only my own "rethinking" of the gifts, a rational that permits the gifting in the absence of attendant phenomenon, but in agreement with my own experience and my understanding of scripture - and that your rational is only different in that instead of looking at the gifts through the lens I have used, you simply stop and conclude that there are no gifts anymore.

    I accept that as a possibility. But I do wonder if the reason you are a total cessationist isn't in some way a product of what you expect or imagine a spiritual gift to be - I wonder I say, because I if I hadn't done that very thing, I am sure I would have come to your conclusion myself.

    I would be curious therefore to know (though you need not answer this - but I would be curious to know) what you think a spiritual gift is (er,... was)?

  • At 7:58 AM, July 18, 2006, Blogger Daniel said…

    Bryan, that is a compromise on my part. If I had it my way, I wouldn't wear a tie or dress pants "ever."

  • At 10:32 AM, July 18, 2006, Blogger Even So... said…

    Your gifts are wisdom and grace, Daniel.

    It is the way you articulate these gifts in your writing that separates them from being "common" human gifts. My questions would be as to if there are events where this wisdom just comes to your mind sort of instantly, this I would describe as words of wisdom.

    Example - yesterday I preached a funeral for the "matriarch" of our spiritual family growing up. 200 people there, some I had known for 30+ years, and some I hadn't seen for 20+ years.

    Anyway, after the service, and at the reception dinner at her former home, a young man came to me and told me how the sermon had touched him. He wanted to know Jesus, but he said he always had these doubts. Now after hearing what I had said, he said he was almost ready.

    Instantly, these words came into my mind and out of my mouth, "Son, do you know what courage is?". He said yes. I said, "Courage isn't the lack of fear, it is in the face of fear, and faith isn't the lack of doubt, it is in the face of doubt."

    He immediately said, "Well then I don't doubt beyond faith anymore, I want Jesus to be the Lord of my life!"

    I, not being a cesationist in the sense that Jonathan is, or even to the degree that you may be, am blessed by your description and understanding of gifts.

    Just as many use the Bible like a magic book, looking for a promise to claim that isn't their, or divorced from a real dynamic relationship with God, so too many see spititual gifts like magic powers. It winds up looking ridiculous, and no wonder so many shy away from this, so do I.

    I will be cutting and pasting some of those things you have said here, they are good, and that to me shows your spiritual gifts. In your case, IMHO, you don't have to go looking for them, just recognize them as you have used them.

  • At 10:39 AM, July 18, 2006, Blogger Rose~ said…

    If there was a gift of writing, I would say you have it, but that is a talent, not a spiritual gift. I am not so quick to jump and tell what gift a person has. I don't know you well enough!

  • At 2:32 PM, July 18, 2006, Blogger David said…

    Back when I was a Gothardite, I thought I had the gift of prophesy; but when I actually thought about it, his definition of "prophet" is what most people call an annoying jerk. Sure, it's accurate, but is that a spiritual gift?

    Don't worry about it. Your "gift" is doing, to the best of your ability, whatever you desire as you delight in the Lord.

  • At 2:39 PM, July 18, 2006, Blogger Jonathan Moorhead said…

    Daniel, although I am comfortable with my view on Total Cessation (TC), I do realize that I am in the severe minority. I agree that we all interpret Scripture with our situatedness, so this is always a factor to keep in mind. In fact, I have found no one that takes my view on Eph 4:13, which is dangerous and probably naïve of me.

    You might remember that 195 days ago I started a series on TC (part 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 [thanks to Technorati for counting days for me]). In this series I attempted to show that according to Eph 4:13 there is no room for partial cessationism: it is either all or nothing for gifts today.

    IMPORTANT: In Eph 4:11 there is no distinction made between gifts that would cease, and those that would remain ("He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers"). These are the gifts that would be operative "until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God . . ." (v. 13). So the question is: what is this “unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God . . ." I take it to be canonical in nature. Hence, all spiritual gifts would have ceased in the apostolic period as the Scriptures were being disseminated.

    Now, if you take “unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God . . ." as being future, then you must hold that all spiritual gifts continue to be operative. I would love your feedback.

  • At 5:09 PM, July 18, 2006, Blogger Jim said…

    Good post Daniel, I didn't realize this was so controversial?

    Perhaps, the main thing is that we learn to recognize the Spirit's leading as His power and not our own.

    We can become proud thinking the gift something we worked up or developed.

    God bless,

  • At 9:41 AM, July 19, 2006, Blogger Ryan said…


    Since I have not had opportunity to meet you in person, nor see you in action in your church, I would not say I am qualified to speculate at your spiritual gift.

    Those who know you best will best be able to provide accurate "review."


  • At 1:32 PM, July 19, 2006, Blogger Daniel said…

    Jonathan, I haven't yet given the proper attention to your linked postings on this topic, so I hope I am not being superfluous when I note that Paul prayed often for men to come to the knowledge of God/Christ. Would you say that Paul was actually praying that they would (eventually) come into possession of a NT canon?

    Likewise, wasn't Paul saying in Ephesians 4:3 that they ought to "preserve" the "unity of the Spirit" in the bond of peace? Are you suggesting that the unity of faith was entirely foreign to the idea of the unity of the Spirit?

    I mention this, because a casual glance (and that is all I have given this as yet) would make it difficult for me to understand how "the unity of faith" and "the knowledge of the Son" could refer to the coming closed canon; especially considering how Paul used similar language elsewhere in his epistles while clearly -not- discussing the canon.

    I really ought to go and read your position before I comment on it though.

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